Is ONI Getting too complicated?

[Teh Nizzim]

I find that I often feel overwhelmed every time I come back to this game, and I started way back in the early versions and was overwhelmed then as well.

It could be just me, but does anyone else find this hits a learning curve wall? I get to a certain point and just have no idea how to sustain any of my resources, how to make more water. I know there are tutorials, but they dont seem dynamic enough for specific circumstances, mixed with how confusing the priority and preferences system can be sometimes, its hard to get any of the dupes to do anything specific or exclusive. Again it might just be me, but I dont see anything like that explained in the games tutorials?

This ISNT a diss on this game at all, i absolutely love the game and respect its breadth, but I'm just wondering if I'm in the majority on the learning curve being a bit confusing or not.

Discuss.

[intenselygoodtime]

Nah; my 10-year old plays it. She doesn't obsess over optimizing, min-maxing, nor the stuff that I do. She loves tinkering and just seeing where things go. Cares about aesthetics, which makes her and the Dupes happy.

Just focus on that simple joy, and if/when all your dupes die, maybe solve that problem next time... or maybe just tinker more!

[SakuraKoi]

The secret to breaking the curve is simple:

Recognize hidden geysers through the temperature overlay and the neutronium blocks.

Bonus:

Difficulty is tied to the number of dupes you have, for twice the dupes don't do twice the work. The optimal number is around 8 to have all errands covered.

Regarding the priorities, it is actually quite simple:

The check goes from left to right first on the tab (IIRC), and then one can consider ^^ as 50, ^ as 40, - as 30 v as 20 and vv as 10 (X is X). The errands meanwhile add 1-9 to that so for a dupe with a ^^ and the errand on 9 is a 59, a ^ on 3 a 43 &c.

In short, a dupe checks their favorite errands and then within that errand they choose the one with the highest prio. Usually, there should be no problem regardless from the left to right reading if one let their dupe focus on 3 errands and sets all other errands to vv or X.

Problems only occur if you go for more categories without knowing the flow or have no dupes who do sweep/store/tidy/whatever to begin with. For newcomers, problems occur because they believe an individual errand priority over the duplicant's.

[Kaisha]

The problem is 90% of the game is a 'noob trap'. None of the things you think matter actually do, and the stuff that shouldn't matter often does. The buildings don't do what they say, the tooltips are either inaccurate or outright misleading. Most of the buildings are needlessly difficult to use.

For example, airlocks... are never actually used as airlocks because they are useless at containing gases or heat. Instead the single/double water lock is used, with the occasional visco-lock late game. So the noobie is going to read 'air lock' and think 'hey this'll be good for atmospheric containment/separation' when, in fact, it's not.

Same goes for easily 75% of the buildings in the game, at best suboptimal for their stated purpose, and often outright useless.

On top of that the mess that is dupe AI, and horrible late game performance...

[kampfer91]

I agree with the tooltip and building description , either very misleading or lack information .

For example the gas generator , should they mention about no pipe output for polluted water and so you gotta use mesh tile ? They didn't and it adds more unnecessary and unforeseen problem for the first time user . If they add info in the building schematic , that will help a lot .

[Power and Wealth]

I suppose the game has to hold hands, tell you everything is going to be alright and tell you how its supposed to be played, rather than putting that huge human brain to use and doing a bit of your own research.

[Kaisha]

Originally posted by Archaos the Mad Bro:

I suppose the game has to hold hands, tell you everything is going to be alright and tell you how its supposed to be played, rather than putting that huge human brain to use and doing a bit of your own research.

Right, so you understand how flaking works (and hence why ceramic is better than insulation despite the latter having 0 TC)? Or why steam deletion occurs in an enclosed AQ/ST setup?

Even the simplest setup requires vast amounts of arcane knowledge only found deep in obscure forums. This is a game designed to be played by a few streamers in sandbox mode.

[Power and Wealth]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

Originally posted by Archaos the Mad Bro:

I suppose the game has to hold hands, tell you everything is going to be alright and tell you how its supposed to be played, rather than putting that huge human brain to use and doing a bit of your own research.

Right, so you understand how flaking works (and hence why ceramic is better than insulation despite the latter having 0 TC)? Or why steam deletion occurs in an enclosed AQ/ST setup?

Even the simplest setup requires vast amounts of arcane knowledge only found deep in obscure forums. This is a game designed to be played by a few streamers in sandbox mode.

Its almost like - I don't know - the game requires you to make an active effort in gathering knowlegde and test out new interesting designs and ideas on the sandbox mode. Oh wait no, there's 100's of guides out there discribing in detail with images and diagrams right here on Steam, let alone a whole community on YouTube with in-detail guides on how to build anything worthwhile. Wait-wait-wait, let me guess? You don't want to make an active effort but would rather have everything handed to you?

Edit:
Having an absolutely basic understanding of how physics works does indeed help but is not required.

[kampfer91]

Originally posted by Archaos the Mad Bro:

I suppose the game has to hold hands, tell you everything is going to be alright and tell you how its supposed to be played, rather than putting that huge human brain to use and doing a bit of your own research.

Not hold hand , provide enough information so players can do the rest .

For example , let 's say there is a game that make you stuck with pistol for a few hours and then it give you a plasma gun that in the description , state it will solve many of your problem and end with a short line of " it create heat " , people use it and realize the gun itself can't be use after a few shot because there is no heat sink on the gun thus you either have to ditch it because it will get super hot or scavenge for a mod , grumbling about wasted time unable to prepare .

Learning experience can be fun , or can be a horrible experience that could have been avoided , ONI inflate its difficulty spike by provide the least info along with a basic graph , something a colony management game needed .

[Aleddra]

No.

Destroying content because it is complicated makes a game, less...

[zverozvero]

With new starting materials and machines to use them player needs to learn start anew but is it any different from what was before? Load of tiles to be crushed processed and consumed till some sustain is achieved. Then higher tec can be assembled to see if and how it'll work. To be broken and rebuilt multiple times till it actually works. Only unapparent catch is (and was) that new tec is not an urgent solution to keep equilibrium - going blunt with stuff like melting frozen biome or trading more dirt for lice is. New tec usually starts as trouble to ruin base with overheating and getting harmfull gas/liquid around.
Tutorials and some more detailed descriptions are allways good off course. Just tricks including Flaking/Mass deletion or contraptions like petrol boiler is high-end guide turf not some new players tutorial.

[Kaisha]

Originally posted by Archaos the Mad Bro:

Its almost like - I don't know - the game requires you to make an active effort in gathering knowlegde and test out new interesting designs and ideas on the sandbox mode.

Having to build every single thing 1st in sandbox mode because the devs can't write a proper tooltip is annoying.

Originally posted by Archaos the Mad Bro:

Oh wait no, there's 100's of guides out there discribing in detail with images and diagrams right here on Steam, let alone a whole community on YouTube with in-detail guides on how to build anything worthwhile. Wait-wait-wait, let me guess? You don't want to make an active effort but would rather have everything handed to you?

I do software development and circuit design on a daily basis. If I wanted to scour arcane documents and delve deep into forums, I'd just do my normal work. At some point I just want to play a game, not reverse engineer it.

I have to put up with enough errata from datasheets and horrible APIs, I don't need to deal with it in a video game.

[Power and Wealth]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

I have to put up with enough errata from datasheets and horrible APIs, I don't need to deal with it in a video game.

Then go play farmvile on your phone or Raid. You are looking for problems where there is none, baiting people into arguements and trolling :)
Little troll :)

[Kaisha]

Originally posted by Archaos the Mad Bro:

Then go play farmvile on your phone or Raid. You are looking for problems where there is none, baiting people into arguements and trolling :)
Little troll :)

Oh the irony.

I can speak my opinion on a forum designed just for that, even if you disapprove.

[Power and Wealth]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

Oh the irony.

I can speak my opinion on a forum designed just for that, even if you disapprove.

That you are indeed allowed to, as I am allowed to call you out on your bs, I too can make up a bunch of lies and imaginative stories to validate my statement.
If ONI is too tiresome for you to play, yet you complain about it feeling too much like work, then why play it if the complexity is too much? Go play Raid:Shadow Legend or Farmville, its a lot more simple.

[SakuraKoi]

Originally posted by Archaos the Mad Bro:

That you are indeed allowed to, as I am allowed to call you out on your bs, I too can make up a bunch of lies and imaginative stories to validate my statement.
If ONI is too tiresome for you to play, yet you complain about it feeling too much like work, then why play it if the complexity is too much? Go play Raid:Shadow Legend or Farmville, its a lot more simple.

Even though you are allowed to, please, I ask of thee... don't feed the choleric.