Scalding on 55 degrees?

[MegaDON]

Been playing for ages but now with installed Frost dlc I get dupes scalding on just around 55 degrees. This used to be a fine temperature before, no scalding, was there some kind of change to this?

[cswiger]

Yes. Clothing and temperature stations (ie, water cooler for too hot) are needed more.

[MegaDON]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Yes. Clothing and temperature stations (ie, water cooler for too hot) are needed more.

Is there official information about all those changes, like on which temperatures are now scalding and other stuff?
This might be a huge problem for me to remake bases in all asteroids

[XceptOne]

Originally posted by MegaDON:

Originally posted by cswiger:

Yes. Clothing and temperature stations (ie, water cooler for too hot) are needed more.

Is there official information about all those changes, like on which temperatures are now scalding and other stuff?
This might be a huge problem for me to remake bases in all asteroids

Problem is, this has always been about heat influx rather than a certain temperature.
The more conducting the gas a dupe is exposed to and the more conducting the tile it stands on, the lower the actual temperature and time until the dupe takes damage.

A good example for the old values was the oil biome. As long as a dupe only stands in co2 at oil biome temperature, everything was fine most of the time. But being exposed to oxygen at the same temp would lead to scalding. Standing in oil was even faster.
Another example was how on Oassis a dupe could stand on 70℃ sandstone and be fine, but standing on sand of the same temp would scald him (not sure what the actual temp was, but somewhere in that region).

That means that even now the temperature thresholds depend on the involved materials.
(And, at least for me, it's still too new to give some numbers on certain materials)

[MegaDON]

I played thousands of cycles, never had issues with such low temperatures. Scalding was a problem at around 100 degrees only.
Anyone know if there is some kind of official information so we could read about those changes in temperatures?

[XceptOne]

So far, there's only the patch notes here:
https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158385-oxygen-not-included-the-frosty-planet-pack-dlc-launch/

Not sure if the adjusted comfortable range was enough to do this, though, but then I don't actually remember what exactly it was before. Maybe they also changed something about duplicant conductivity or heat production, too, but if so I didn't see that in the notes.

[MegaDON]

Originally posted by XceptOne:

So far, there's only the patch notes here:
https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158385-oxygen-not-included-the-frosty-planet-pack-dlc-launch/

Not sure if the adjusted comfortable range was enough to do this, though, but then I don't actually remember what exactly it was before. Maybe they also changed something about duplicant conductivity or heat production, too, but if so I didn't see that in the notes.

Yeah I saw this, but there is no information about those changes. Or perhaps if this was not intended change, could be a bug. After every bigger update there is a bigger chance of new bugs, I guess we will see if more people will find such issues / bugs

[cswiger]

Originally posted by MegaDON:

Yeah I saw this, but there is no information about those changes.

Perhaps you're not reading carefully?

Revised Duplicant temperature mechanics:

Hyperthermia and Hypothermia diseases have been removed. Instead, Duplicants are now more vulnerable to Chilly Surroundings and Toasty Surroundings debuffs at temperatures outside their comfort range.
Duplicant comfort range has been adjusted to approximately 0°C - 45°C in standard oxygen conditions.
Duplicants now receive “Frostbite” damage when exposed to extremely cold external temperatures (approximately -90°C).
High body heat loss will now disturb a sleeping Duplicant.
Duplicants will now seek warming stations to remove the Chilly Surroundings status effect.
Duplicants will now seek cooling stations to remove the Toasty Surroundings status effect.
Warming stations remove and provide temporary immunity to Chilly Surroundings and Soggy Feet status effects.
Cooling stations remove and provide temporary immunity to the Toasty Surroundings status effect.
Space Heaters now function as Warming Stations.
Water Coolers now function as Cooling Stations.
The Warm Sweater has been replaced by the Warm Coat, which has a more effective insulation property.
The Cool Vest has been removed from the game.
Atmo Suits now provide immunity to Chilly Surroundings and Toasty Surrounding effects.
Hot Tub and Sauna now provide 3 cycles of Frost Resistance.
Spicy Tofu and Curried Beans now provide 1 cycle of Frost Resistant: Spicy Diet effect.

Revised critter temperature mechanics

Rebalanced all critter comfort and livable temperature ranges.
Critters with an internal temperature outside of their comfort ranges suffer a happiness penalty.
Critters experiencing an external temperature outside of their livable range will gradually take damage.
Critters now spawn at a comfortable internal temperature.
Critters now show thought bubbles when they feel too cold or too warm.

Temperature Overlay Improvements

Added Heat Source and Heat Sink icons.
Added a visual effect to objects with significant heat production.
Added a slider-adjustable "Relative Temperature" sub-overlay to the Temperature Overlay screen.

[MegaDON]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Originally posted by MegaDON:

Yeah I saw this, but there is no information about those changes.

Perhaps you're not reading carefully?

Revised Duplicant temperature mechanics:

Hyperthermia and Hypothermia diseases have been removed. Instead, Duplicants are now more vulnerable to Chilly Surroundings and Toasty Surroundings debuffs at temperatures outside their comfort range.
Duplicant comfort range has been adjusted to approximately 0°C - 45°C in standard oxygen conditions.
Duplicants now receive “Frostbite” damage when exposed to extremely cold external temperatures (approximately -90°C).
High body heat loss will now disturb a sleeping Duplicant.
Duplicants will now seek warming stations to remove the Chilly Surroundings status effect.
Duplicants will now seek cooling stations to remove the Toasty Surroundings status effect.
Warming stations remove and provide temporary immunity to Chilly Surroundings and Soggy Feet status effects.
Cooling stations remove and provide temporary immunity to the Toasty Surroundings status effect.
Space Heaters now function as Warming Stations.
Water Coolers now function as Cooling Stations.
The Warm Sweater has been replaced by the Warm Coat, which has a more effective insulation property.
The Cool Vest has been removed from the game.
Atmo Suits now provide immunity to Chilly Surroundings and Toasty Surrounding effects.
Hot Tub and Sauna now provide 3 cycles of Frost Resistance.
Spicy Tofu and Curried Beans now provide 1 cycle of Frost Resistant: Spicy Diet effect.

Revised critter temperature mechanics

Rebalanced all critter comfort and livable temperature ranges.
Critters with an internal temperature outside of their comfort ranges suffer a happiness penalty.
Critters experiencing an external temperature outside of their livable range will gradually take damage.
Critters now spawn at a comfortable internal temperature.
Critters now show thought bubbles when they feel too cold or too warm.

Temperature Overlay Improvements

Added Heat Source and Heat Sink icons.
Added a visual effect to objects with significant heat production.
Added a slider-adjustable "Relative Temperature" sub-overlay to the Temperature Overlay screen.

Reading what? Can you share where is this info?
It is definitely not here https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158385-oxygen-not-included-the-frosty-planet-pack-dlc-launch/

Btw this is already useful, so thanks too

EDIT: ok apparently there is a secret button to unhide more details, I wish they didn't do that, it would be easier to find stuff

[MegaDON]

By the way, having this info in mind "Duplicant comfort range has been adjusted to approximately 0°C - 45°C in standard oxygen conditions." - what was the range before?

I think 55 degrees was not within comfort before too, probably some "Toasty environment" debuff, but isn't scalding debuff a bit too much for 55 degrees?

[Soylent]

Agree, "scalding" is to strong a word for 55C. People can survive in 55 C. To me, "scalding" means something is physically burning your skin.

[MegaDON]

Originally posted by Soylent:

Agree, "scalding" is to strong a word for 55C. People can survive in 55 C. To me, "scalding" means something is physically burning your skin.

Well its not just a strong word, dupes are losing hp when scalding. So not sure what happened with these latest updates, but dupes should not be scalding at 55 degrees

[cswiger]

Originally posted by MegaDON:

Reading what? Can you share where is this info?
It is definitely not here https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158385-oxygen-not-included-the-frosty-planet-pack-dlc-launch/

Sure it is-- search for "Full patch notes" on that page and then click on the spoiler section directly below.

PS: 55 C water causes 3rd degree scalding burns in ~30 seconds.

[MegaDON]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Originally posted by MegaDON:

Reading what? Can you share where is this info?
It is definitely not here https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158385-oxygen-not-included-the-frosty-planet-pack-dlc-launch/

Sure it is-- search for "Full patch notes" on that page and then click on the spoiler section directly below.

PS: 55 C water causes 3rd degree scalding burns in ~30 seconds.

Yeah I have literally just found that button to unhide too.

You are probably talking about real life hot water, where 60 degrees of Celcius can cause a serious burn, still not 55 though.
And I'm talking about this game lol. If comfort range is up to 40 degrees, then I guess 40-70 should be debuffed as "toasty surroundings" and start scalding at 70 etc. It was something like that before, but now it seems you get from comfort straight to scalding

[cswiger]

Originally posted by MegaDON:

You are probably talking about real life hot water, where 60 degrees of Celcius can cause a serious burn, still not 55 though.

I'm talking about real hot water scalding temp:

https://discover.symmons.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Evolution-Temp-Safety-Chart-03.10.20.pdf
https://antiscald.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=15

120 F / 49 C is the max safe temperature for hot water at the faucet.
Long term exposure to even 45 C temps is hazardous.

And I'm talking about this game lol. If comfort range is up to 40 degrees, then I guess 40-70 should be debuffed as "toasty surroundings" and start scalding at 70 etc. It was something like that before, but now it seems you get from comfort straight to scalding

People-- and presumably dupes-- can handle cold much better then hot. 45 C as the max dupe comfort range is already generous.

[Soylent]

Ah ok, I was referring to air temperature