How do you cool your colony without an Ice Biome?

[Aldourien]

I started playing ONI not long ago. I have generated five instances so far and steadily been making progress with each attempt.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3102305519
On my fifth attempt I dug for some iron and abysslite only to come across a volcano while digging. After a few cycles I noticed the colony was beginning to run hot, so I looked for solutions. Ice machines properly follow the laws of thermodynamics and produce more heat than the ice can dissipate. SPOM is way out there in the late game, I think, I haven't even refined metals yet. The furnace require water cooling, and my colony perished before I could install two Thermo Aquatuners in a milder biome to disperse the heat.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3102306547
I'm stumped by this problem.

Is there an intermediate step to handle heat build-up from generators, the environment, and production? Or is it necessary to explore vast distances in hopes of an Ice Biome? Any heat I try to isolate to the machines will overheat them, or eventually reach my main colony if I put it out in the environment. Even if I insulate my facilities the heat will eventually heat up the doors, or go through airflow tiles.

The way I see the progression in the early stages seem like I need to start as a minimalist and dig out a lot of space in order to plan the placements of facilities. That way I could move power generators and heat-intensive production way out of the main colony, and triple insulate them, before I start making actual developments. Am I interpreting this right?

[XceptOne]

I'm a bit late to the party, it seems.
Anyway...

'starving to death before reaching the ice biome':
The sandstone area to the left still has a nice temperature? Then build a mealwood farm there. And build an insulated wall isolating it from the neighbouring biomes (towards the granite walls). But don't build an insulated wall towards your base and try to keep as much of that sandostone intact and in contact with your new farm, so it can soak up heat for some time.
Then build a couple more oxygen masks and use them dig your way to the ice.

'insulation':
You actually got too much of that in your base. Insulating every tiny room is just going to trap heat in the area. This is heavily exaggerating your heat problems.
The heat has to be able to go somewhere if you don't have active cooling in place.

'getting rid of oxygen':
If you really need to(only if you've got a water source already, you'll run out fast otherwise) then you can either dig up to the space biome and just space the overflow oxygen (it'll vanish). (again, use oxygen masks to get there)
Or you could look up infinite storage (or ask) and just store it close by.
Or you could build a door crusher, basically a set of two doors, where when the first one closes o2 gets trapped behind it on the two tiles of the second door (with walls around it, so the gas cannot get away) and when the second door closes, the trapped gas can go nowhere and thus gets deleted.

'your volcano problem':
Wall it in on both sides (4 tiles high, as high as the volcano itself) and fill it up with water. This will prevent eruptions. It won't undo any damage that is already done though.

'aquatuners at the end of that ladder':
I have no idea what they are doing, but they probably won't survive for long.
Positive thing though, you could do the same thing with a Thermoregulator or two and use that as a makeshift cooling loop to cool your farms. At least for a while. Just don't insulate them from their surroundings, or they'll overheat quickly.

'the part about generators and smart batteries':
One research behind the jumbo batteries, you'll find Smart batteries, They are supposed to be used with any kind of generator that isn't the hamster wheel (or solar panels, or steam turbines).
They'll have an automation port that will output an active or inactive signal depending on its' internal power storage.
The automatiopn port should be connected to all controlled generators via automation wire. This will shut the generators down, when the battery is filled. And activate them again, once the batterys' power level drops to (near) zero.
The upper and lower limits of the smart battery can be set manually to your likings.

Anyway, get to that ice biome and get yourself some ice and wheezeworts.


Edit: Oh, also re starving, if you can't help it, then let a few dupes die. It's not the end of the world and the survivors won't stay grumpy for long.
(It's not your usual colony builder. Nothing in the game suggests that dupes are to be kept alive at all costs. Quite the opposite actually.
People (including me) just took that sentiment form all the other builder/people manager games out there.)

[caseyas435943]

Escrito originalmente por Aldourien:

I started playing ONI not long ago. I have generated five instances so far and steadily been making progress with each attempt.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3102305519
On my fifth attempt I dug for some iron and abysslite only to come across a volcano while digging. After a few cycles I noticed the colony was beginning to run hot, so I looked for solutions. Ice machines properly follow the laws of thermodynamics and produce more heat than the ice can dissipate. SPOM is way out there in the late game, I think, I haven't even refined metals yet. The furnace require water cooling, and my colony perished before I could install two Thermo Aquatuners in a milder biome to disperse the heat.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3102306547
I'm stumped by this problem.

Is there an intermediate step to handle heat build-up from generators, the environment, and production? Or is it necessary to explore vast distances in hopes of an Ice Biome? Any heat I try to isolate to the machines will overheat them, or eventually reach my main colony if I put it out in the environment. Even if I insulate my facilities the heat will eventually heat up the doors, or go through airflow tiles.

The way I see the progression in the early stages seem like I need to start as a minimalist and dig out a lot of space in order to plan the placements of facilities. That way I could move power generators and heat-intensive production way out of the main colony, and triple insulate them, before I start making actual developments. Am I interpreting this right?

First don't put things in your base the gets hot. You have 3 Composts. Those make insane heat and really are worthless. Dirt shouldn't be anyone's need in this game. Composts put out 75C dirt. If you use them, they should be outside your base.

Best thing is to not let your base get hot. Anything hot shouldn't be in your base.

Once a base is hot it's Turbine and Tuner time. Cold biomes are nice, but they aren't long term. You don't have one, so you only have 1 option.

When you build another base don't make the same mistakes again and you don't need to cool your base. Nothing hot comes in. It easy to cool air. It's harder to cool water.

If you keep the hot stuff out. Cool air will keep your base nice and cool. Bring in 50c+ stuff and it will heat up.

And for the love of God don't put those heat makers in your base (composts). They do nothing but heat up your base with hot dirt. Dirt you probably don't even need. Put the polluted dirty in a storage bin in water so it doesn't off gas and don't worthy about it. I've never used a compost. I just storage the polluted dirt underwater. It's not work changing it to dirt.

[Aldourien]

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'starving to death before reaching the ice biome'

It is cooler on the left side, but from the information I've received—and empirically obtained—I'd better restart anyway in light of the second point:

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'insulation'

Oh, yes. That makes sense. I only looked at the thermals and saw the insulated walls were cooler, which I thought would cool the air around it as well. I'd better rebuild from scratch.

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'getting rid of oxygen'

Door crusher seems interesting, I'll keep that in mind.

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'your volcano problem'

Ooh, I thought about 'quenching it' but wouldn't the water be heated up to 1,000°C and instantly evaporate on contact? Yeah, damage is already done. No regrets.

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'aquatuners at the end of that ladder'

I thought Aquatuners work the same way as a closed water cooling loop with a radiator fan. Why wouldn't they survive? Would they get too hot and melt? Wouldn't the Thermo Regulators do the same?

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'the part about generators and smart batteries'

Oh, that way they don't send out a constant charge. That's useful for saving energy.
I'll have to look into automation and see how it works.

I'll get Wheezeworts the next instance.

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

Edit: Oh, also re starving, if you can't help it, then let a few dupes die.

While I understand the notion, I can't shake the feeling of losing the learning and attribute gains which the duplicate earned during its lifetime—feels like a large loss.

Thanks for the info, some useful knowledge in that post!

Escrito originalmente por caseyas435943:

First don't put things in your base the gets hot. You have 3 Composts. Those make insane heat and really are worthless. ...

... And for the love of God don't put those heat makers in your base (composts).

You do have point about composts. I thought it was the only way to get rid of polluted dirt without everyone getting sick, but if you can store things in submerged containers, does that mean you can store slime the same way without everyone contracting slimelung?

Also, don't worry—I'm an atheist. If I am motivated to do something it'd be out of love for the proletariat, and not for a man-made fairy-tale. Thanks for the advice though!

Edit: Formatting.

[XceptOne]

Escrito originalmente por Aldourien:

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'your volcano problem'

Ooh, I thought about 'quenching it' but wouldn't the water be heated up to 1,000°C and instantly evaporate on contact? Yeah, damage is already done. No regrets.

Depends on how much hot material there already is. The volcano itself is not a problem.
You'd probably get some steam, but water has a much higher heat capacity than magma/igneous rock.
But if there already is hot material, it is advisable to fill the tank up as quick as possible and not with a slow 10kg/s. Like having a pool above it and then just dropping the water all at once.

An alternative would be to just completely insulate the volcano.
Using igneous rock, the volcano will probably cover itself in rock (and thus deactivate itself) without melting the walls.
If you've ceramic available (put clay into a kiln) that will do it without danger.
Put a second layer of insulation around the first one to prevent any heat leaks.

Escrito originalmente por Aldourien:

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

'aquatuners at the end of that ladder'

I thought Aquatuners work the same way as a closed water cooling loop with a radiator fan. Why wouldn't they survive? Would they get too hot and melt? Wouldn't the Thermo Regulators do the same?

[/quote]
Well, yes, the aquatuner will take the liquid pumped through it (at 10kg/s) and reduce its' temperature by 14°C. For water that amounts to 585kDTU (which is an awful lot; heat depends directly on the materials specific heat capacity) every second. That heat then gets applied to the aquatuner itself, which in turn will heat its' environment (if it doesn't die of overheating before that).
There is a reason aquatuners normally get cooled with steam turbines, they are just that powerful.
Oh, also the aquatuner will break long before it gets hot enough to melt.

The thermoregulator works the same as an aquatuner. But on gases which usually have a much smaller heat capacity than water and only have 1kg/s throughput.
That means they are much less powerful (and less efficient) and will therefore output much less heat at once, which give the heat quite some time to disperse into surrounding rocks and gives you quite some time until you need to do something about it (if kept away from your base, of course).
With hydrogen the produced heat will be a bit more than a 5% (about 33-34kDTU/s) of the heat output of a water based aquatuner.

[Aldourien]

The volcano spewed out materials up toward 500°C and couldn't get near it for ages without being scalded to death. I locked the airlocks and never went in again.
I'll keep in mind about using air to cool rather than liquids early on.

I'll also get a hold of Refined Metal earlier this time around for the suits. We go again.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3103468172

Thanks again for the advice I've received.

[Aldourien]

Thanks to the advice I got progress was made! SPOM is about to go up in the northern cavity!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3104705903
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3104705808

[XceptOne]

This looks much better
Now just move the coal generators to somewhere outside the insulation shell.

[Aldourien]

Escrito originalmente por XceptOne:

This looks much better
Now just move the coal generators to somewhere outside the insulation shell.

Thanks, and I will!
I want the SPOM to be completed before I move them so the flow of oxygen won't be impaired.

[Sir Fluffykins]

I have 200 hours on the clock and this new guys base is still way better thought out than mine. They have multiple farms and hatcheries going already too.
I'd really like to know how a player is MEANT to play ONI because it seems you can't get anywhere without multiple tricks for every system.

Furthest I got I basically built an aircon system to regulate the temp and was proud of it as it removed heat outside the base without losing too much heat, only for the fans to melt because they needed cooling.
Half the guides reads more like using glitches to get around a problem instead of whatever the game expects you to do.

[gtgiygus]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

I have 200 hours on the clock and this new guys base is still way better thought out than mine. They have multiple farms and hatcheries going already too.
I'd really like to know how a player is MEANT to play ONI because it seems you can't get anywhere without multiple tricks for every system.

ONI is designed for you to fail, but then learn from your failure. The save game structure (including pictures!) is meant for you to back up easily when a design goes wrong. Not to mention in game encyclopedias etc.

I would also like to point out that many of they hyper-optimized systems that people have built and then learned to copy over the years are NOT NECESSARY. The game can be played, enjoyed and "won" even if your wasting some electricity or water. Or not using a giant nuclear reactor, or a crude oil boiler, or pip planting, or starvation farming.

It is awesome that we are capable of doing those "tricks", but they are not required. Just play and enjoy and learn, don't stress. Something goes wrong, back up 10 cycles and try again.

[POWER WITHIN USER]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

I'd really like to know how a player is MEANT to play ONI because it seems you can't get anywhere without multiple tricks for every system.

Use the save system, tackle a single problem at a time, make sure to use automation; treat it as a puzzle/automation game (factorio) rather than a quirky colony builder where you're meant to lose (rimworld).
You may have to slow down the game and look at how things actually work or even need to pause the game and place down pipes over and over until you understand good pipe placement, same thing with a rocket's interior.

If there's something stopping you from building a thing, fix that problem: I had critters that would eat metal any metal I dug and I didn't want that so I confined all of them then started working.

[Bobucles]

it helps to run a rotating cycle of saves. Keep a backup file around 20-50 cycles back, that's enough time to fix nearly anything.

ONI is a constant tug of war between solving problems quickly, powering through with dupe labor, and tweaking a machine setup to perfection. Newer players should absolutely start by learning the quick fixes, because those buy time to tinker around with more permanent solutions.

[Aldourien]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

I have 200 hours on the clock and this new guys base is still way better thought out than mine. They have multiple farms and hatcheries going already too.

Wow, thanks! What an endorsement!
I realised I like to build a bit more spacious, and blasted most of the surroundings until the temperature began to rise. That's where I wall up with insulated walls and work my way around the colony. I recently discovered you could stack doors on top of each other, making the rooms a more spacious four-tile height, and thanks to the feedback I got earlier I skipped insulating the inside of my colony until I wanted to ranch Dreckos. (top right)

Escrito originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

I'd really like to know how a player is MEANT to play ONI because it seems you can't get anywhere without multiple tricks for every system.

Half the guides reads more like using glitches to get around a problem instead of whatever the game expects you to do.

I get that, I really do. A lot of tricks seem counter-intuitive to what would've been the 'intended way to play', barring the outright glitches and exploits which are never intended.
I think of it as a logic puzzle game, Factorio was mentioned, Stardew Valley (with automation mods), Satisfactory, etc. The developers hand you a bunch of tools and mechanics, and leave you to figure out how to utilise them the best you can.
I'd say ONI's way of teaching is 'trial & error', much like other games of this genre.

I've also made more progress.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3106402584
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3106402441
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3106402366

Edit: Forgot to ask; if I create liquid chlorine and pump it to a tank in my base, will it stay liquid within the tank even if the ambient temperature is warmer than the condensation point?

[gtgiygus]

Escrito originalmente por Aldourien:

Edit: Forgot to ask; if I create liquid chlorine and pump it to a tank in my base, will it stay liquid within the tank even if the ambient temperature is warmer than the condensation point?

Liquid Reservoirs count as insulation for their contents. Very little heat exchange will be made between the environment and the liquid inside. However, there is some heat exchange, so building the reservoir in a vacuum if you plan on having volatile contents is recommended.

If the contents change temperate enough to initiate a state change, the tank will not be damaged. However, when you try to release the liquid, pipe damage will immediately occur, causing a spillage of material into he environment as whatever state it wants to be.

[Sir Fluffykins]

Wow you even have automated sorting up in just a day.

(I never got to that)