Heat management. Base game.

[Drosta]

I have played through a few times ans always find that its heat production that kills me. I have done alot of youtubing and reading but basically everywhere i turn the solutions require steel. And I am really struggling to make the jump from the early game to plastics and steel. Because i feel like the game provides you with a catch 22. In order to deal with heat you need steel. And in order to create steel you need heat management. Because gold amalgum is the best you can get and it breaks under these heats.

So how are y'all making the jump? Preferably a solution that doesn't require glossy dreckos.

Thanks :)

[AlexMBrennan]

And in order to create steel you need heat management.

Not really - you need 1200kg of steel for an AT and a bunch of refined metal for the steam turbine, automation, etc but the asteroid consists of thousands of tons of rock which can easily soak up a bit of heat.

You can just dump the hot waste water back into your main reservoir for the couple of cycles it takes you to make the refined metal you need.

[Bobucles]

Try starting on Rime, lack of heat will be a big problem.

A big part of ONI is dealing with the various doom clocks that threaten your colony. OP knows that heat will kill his colony, that's good. But it's also important to know how much time you have to actually fix it. Heat... takes a LONG time to kill the colony. So just pay the heat tax, tech up, and make it tomorrow's problem.

Also, do not mix hot water in your cold water. Cold is very important and useful for many things, middle temperature water is nearly useless. It can be discarded by using it for supercomputer research, or sent to an electrolyzer for more oxygen. Both options are very safe and will effectively delete the heat in the water. Of course, feel free to run the water another lap through the refinery and get more use out of it, but there's enough slack in the game to not be forced into such things.

[bob644016]

For me, i just used Wheezeworts scattered around and placed in areas that will generate a lot of heat. If you get lucky enough, you could also loop the water from a cool (salt) slush geyser around your colony. This means you would have an easy way to warm up the water to purify (as it comes out too cold to be turned into fresh water without freezing), and you get a way to cool down your colony. Some other ways too cool down would be the Aquatuner + steam turbine setup, the Thermo-Nullifier, and playing on Rime i guess. I haven't really explored these methods much, as i've only had 3 colonies, so do with them what you will.

[bwhitejr]

Originally posted by Drosta:

I have played through a few times ans always find that its heat production that kills me. I have done alot of youtubing and reading but basically everywhere i turn the solutions require steel. And I am really struggling to make the jump from the early game to plastics and steel. Because i feel like the game provides you with a catch 22. In order to deal with heat you need steel. And in order to create steel you need heat management. Because gold amalgum is the best you can get and it breaks under these heats.

So how are y'all making the jump? Preferably a solution that doesn't require glossy dreckos.

Thanks :)

Enough steel for one aquatuner isn't that big a hurdle. You need lime, which you can get from eggshells, you need carbon from the kiln, you need iron, which you can make in the rock crusher (or smooth hatches if you have ranches), and you need the metal refinery.

Here's what I do - and there are many other approaches to this:
Get lime, carbon and refined iron going, and ceramics in a kiln.
Once I have ceramics, I build the refinery out of it, and make the pipes for it, especially the output, from it.
I find a cool pool of water, or a frozen biome with water at the bottom. Build a pump, and pipe the water to the refinery, and then put a ceramic pipe out to the pool of water.
The biggest trick is the power you need, a couple of coal generators will do. You can literally use magma in the refinery, if the pipes you use can stand it. The problem with early game is using water as a coolant for it, which will flash to steam in the output pipe, breaking it. Ceramic in my experience lasts long enough for small batches. Magma cooling takes better materials than you have access to early on.

Then, I start making steel. Usually I can get 5 units done without overheating the coolant, which will break the output pipe. Won't take long to get enough for an aquatuner.

Steam turbines need the 3rd science research, so that can wait until later - if you can generate radbolts, you can figure out plastic - rush to the oil biome, get just enough crude oil to make some plastic, set up just like you did with the refinery in a cold biome. It won't be forever plastic production, but you'll make enough for one turbine. Or start ranching dreckos, and get some glossies. (This is frustrating at times, some bases I can get glossies early, and have two ranches pumping out plastic before I get anywhere near the oil biome, some bases they never show up, or take forever.)

Alternate cooling would be things like cold water geysers, or wheezeworts, or go up to the surface, dig a channel with radiant pipes, and then fill the channel over the pipes with metal tiles, to cool the pipes (only build over the pipes, don't put a floor or ceiling in, temps up there can be -60.) But you don't need to get that complicated for a simple metal refinery. Dump the heat into a pool of water.

Aquatuners first. It can run and cool water for a while with no steam turbine, just control the temps that it's dropping the cooling loop - 10C and up is usually good for p-water. (An aquatuner will freeze p-water in pipes pretty efficiently) Build it where you want it long term, because moving a super heated aquatuner water pool is pretty challenging. I broke one open by accident and cooked my base and dupes,

Once you've built a refinery a couple of times, it's not nearly as daunting. Francis John on YouTube did a similar set up in his current series he's doing. Early industrial can be very temporary, just to get going.

[Drosta]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

And in order to create steel you need heat management.

Not really - you need 1200kg of steel for an AT and a bunch of refined metal for the steam turbine, automation, etc but the asteroid consists of thousands of tons of rock which can easily soak up a bit of heat.

You can just dump the hot waste water back into your main reservoir for the couple of cycles it takes you to make the refined metal you need.

I dont feel like its that simple. I agree you "just need" this and that. I just find it hard to actually get it. Whats your method? For example saying an AT is just 1200kg of steel. Well, that means 240kg of refined carbon and unless I'm misunderstanding the wiki, refined carbon requires heating coal to +280C.
How is that kind of heat managed ? Or am i just overthinking it?

And what about the steam turbine? Because its not just 800kg of refined metal. Its also 200kg of plastic. The plastic is the hard part for me. I guess, obviously if i can craft the 240kg of refined carbon without a problem I can create the aquatuner and that'll let me handle the plastic. And from there im golden. Is that what i should try?

Thanks all for the replies.

[Drosta]

Originally posted by bwhitejr:

Originally posted by Drosta:

I have played through a few times ans always find that its heat production that kills me. I have done alot of youtubing and reading but basically everywhere i turn the solutions require steel. And I am really struggling to make the jump from the early game to plastics and steel. Because i feel like the game provides you with a catch 22. In order to deal with heat you need steel. And in order to create steel you need heat management. Because gold amalgum is the best you can get and it breaks under these heats.

So how are y'all making the jump? Preferably a solution that doesn't require glossy dreckos.

Thanks :)

Enough steel for one aquatuner isn't that big a hurdle. You need lime, which you can get from eggshells, you need carbon from the kiln, you need iron, which you can make in the rock crusher (or smooth hatches if you have ranches), and you need the metal refinery.

Here's what I do - and there are many other approaches to this:
Get lime, carbon and refined iron going, and ceramics in a kiln.
Once I have ceramics, I build the refinery out of it, and make the pipes for it, especially the output, from it.
I find a cool pool of water, or a frozen biome with water at the bottom. Build a pump, and pipe the water to the refinery, and then put a ceramic pipe out to the pool of water.
The biggest trick is the power you need, a couple of coal generators will do. You can literally use magma in the refinery, if the pipes you use can stand it. The problem with early game is using water as a coolant for it, which will flash to steam in the output pipe, breaking it. Ceramic in my experience lasts long enough for small batches. Magma cooling takes better materials than you have access to early on.

Then, I start making steel. Usually I can get 5 units done without overheating the coolant, which will break the output pipe. Won't take long to get enough for an aquatuner.

Steam turbines need the 3rd science research, so that can wait until later - if you can generate radbolts, you can figure out plastic - rush to the oil biome, get just enough crude oil to make some plastic, set up just like you did with the refinery in a cold biome. It won't be forever plastic production, but you'll make enough for one turbine. Or start ranching dreckos, and get some glossies. (This is frustrating at times, some bases I can get glossies early, and have two ranches pumping out plastic before I get anywhere near the oil biome, some bases they never show up, or take forever.)

Alternate cooling would be things like cold water geysers, or wheezeworts, or go up to the surface, dig a channel with radiant pipes, and then fill the channel over the pipes with metal tiles, to cool the pipes (only build over the pipes, don't put a floor or ceiling in, temps up there can be -60.) But you don't need to get that complicated for a simple metal refinery. Dump the heat into a pool of water.

Aquatuners first. It can run and cool water for a while with no steam turbine, just control the temps that it's dropping the cooling loop - 10C and up is usually good for p-water. (An aquatuner will freeze p-water in pipes pretty efficiently) Build it where you want it long term, because moving a super heated aquatuner water pool is pretty challenging. I broke one open by accident and cooked my base and dupes,

Once you've built a refinery a couple of times, it's not nearly as daunting. Francis John on YouTube did a similar set up in his current series he's doing. Early industrial can be very temporary, just to get going.

Thank you for this. I posted the previous reply before seeing you posted this.

[POWER WITHIN USER]

Originally posted by Drosta:

How is that kind of heat managed ?

You put the machines for those heat producing processes in areas contained by insulated tiles.

I don't think anyone mentioned this, but if you use insulated tiles and pipes you'll be able to control where heat goes to. Temperature increases can't reach your farms if you say "no" build insulated tiles.

You can use a metal refinery and have it transfer 56C worth of heat to 400kg of polluted water, sounds bad until you realize that it's simple to keep most of that heat away from your farms.

[Aranador]

Almost every asteroid has a cool area - circulate heat to there. Most asteroids have a cool slush or cool brine geyser. pipe that stuff around and chill is yours. You can also sink some of that initial industrial heat into large areas where it won't make things too bad. It is definitely a learning point in the game.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Drosta:

Well, that means 240kg of refined carbon and unless I'm misunderstanding the wiki, refined carbon requires heating coal to +280C.
How is that kind of heat managed ? Or am i just overthinking it?

You're missing the part on the page about how you can make Refined Carbon with a Kiln, which just requires stuffing some coal into it and creating some waste heat.

[JokeryEU]

seal up your base from outside heat, and use water to maintain base temp before going into the oxygen generation to destroy the heat, also can use it to cool off the produced oxygen before that, have a slush poluted water gayser, use that coldness to cool off all my industries and oxygen, by the time it gets coverted its around 25C

[AlexMBrennan]

And what about the steam turbine? Because its not just 800kg of refined metal. Its also 200kg of plastic. The plastic is the hard part for me.

You build a refinery and run that for 66 seconds, and then you build a polymer press and run it for 400 seconds. This is going to generate a small amount of natural gas, CO2, and steam but that is not going to cause any serious problems if you only run the buildings for less than a cycle.

Also, technically the steam turbine could be installed later; the steam can soak up quite a bit of heat before it gets hot enough to damage the steel aquatuner.

[Bobucles]

Running a refinery isn't going to insta kill your base. Just don't build it directly in your farm space, maybe out in the wilderness, and let it do its thing. By the time it starts cooking stuff there's more than enough refined metal to solve problems.

[cat burger sunday meal]

I found success mining out a small cold biome, installing an insulated room inside to do metal refining, and dumping the hot waste water out for the biome to soak up. It took ages for the biome to significantly warm because water can take so much heat, and by then I had plenty of steal to set up a more long term industrial sauna. Also, don't be afraid of the anti-entropy thermo nullifiers. they are super cheap on hydrogen.

[Crai-Crai]

It's definitely challenging. What I did:
1. Farm some dreckos. Feed them mealwood. Get some glossy drecko eggs. Turn those into glossy dreckos. Shave them for plastic. I got tons of plastic without even digging down to the oil biome.
2. Find a spot near a polluted water pool and a frozen biome. Make a kiln for ceramics, a rock crusher to get started on a few refined metals, then later, a refinery for more efficient metal refining. The rock crusher is not very efficient but you can make a bunch of iron and copper and lime in the early game without needing a lot of coolant and power.
3. Put some coal into the kiln and get some refined carbon from that.
4. Pump polluted water out of the pool, into the refinery, then out around the frozen biome (preferably past a wild weezewort or 2) and back to the refinery. Take your lime and iron from the rock crusher, and your carbon from the kiln, and make just enough steel for 1 aquatuner, and just enough iron for the turbine.
5. For coolant piping, use granite until you have enough refined metal later on for radiant piping.

For me, I just tried to get by with a few basic, inefficient solutions until I could save up the materials later for better stuff. I tried some stuff, tore it apart, and built back better.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Xuhybrid]

Gold works perfectly fine if you put the autotuner in a large body of liquid.