Gas storage: room vs reservoir (natural gas)

[Rex Lupus]

I'm organizing to handle a natural gas geyser and I want to store its gas. What would be the best way? A room or reservoirs?

Using the high-pressure vent, I can store 20kg per tile. Considering the size of a reservoir, it stores 10kg per tile (not counting the floor), so moving the gas to a closed room gives more storage per tile. My concern is the usage of this gas. How easy would to pump the gas out, especially as the room starts to get emptier? With the reservoir, it's easy to get the output pipe. Has anyone used a room to store gas like this? How good it is? How big or small should the room be to be usable?

[cswiger]

Both choices you mention work fine; they are also not mutually exclusive. Pumping gas costs power so you should disable the gas pump below ~100 g pressure.

[Rex Lupus]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Both choices you mention work fine; they are also not mutually exclusive. Pumping gas costs power so you should disable the gas pump below ~100 g pressure.

Now that you mentioned it is obvious, but I didn't consider the fact that I can fill a room with gas AND put reservoirs on it.

I was also wondering about the gas pressure. Thank you for the info.

Does anyone know what would be the best place to put the vent to send gas to the room and the best place to put the pump to get the gas out?

[gtgiygus]

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

Now that you mentioned it is obvious, but I didn't consider the fact that I can fill a room with gas AND put reservoirs on it.

I was also wondering about the gas pressure. Thank you for the info.

Does anyone know what would be the best place to put the vent to send gas to the room and the best place to put the pump to get the gas out?

Assuming you start from a vacuum, you can put the input/outputs where ever it is convenient to you. If you are not starting from vacuum, put the output (air pump) where you expect the gas to settle. For example, for Natural Gas, that would be below the oxygen layer. It is, of course, more efficient to start from a vacuum, but usually a good deal more work.

I do not believe that air pressure will cause a normal solid tile to break, unlike water pressure. But a note of caution: Be very careful of the temperatures you are dealing with. Natural Gas is usually output around 150 C, that is more than enough to overheat and break a gas pump that is not made out of steel. It would be a big headache if you set everything up, only to have your pump break right after you start. Breaking your storage box back open to fix things will need all sorts of clean up.

[Rex Lupus]

Originally posted by gtgiygus:

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

Now that you mentioned it is obvious, but I didn't consider the fact that I can fill a room with gas AND put reservoirs on it.

I was also wondering about the gas pressure. Thank you for the info.

Does anyone know what would be the best place to put the vent to send gas to the room and the best place to put the pump to get the gas out?

Assuming you start from a vacuum, you can put the input/outputs where ever it is convenient to you. If you are not starting from vacuum, put the output (air pump) where you expect the gas to settle. For example, for Natural Gas, that would be below the oxygen layer. It is, of course, more efficient to start from a vacuum, but usually a good deal more work.

I do not believe that air pressure will cause a normal solid tile to break, unlike water pressure. But a note of caution: Be very careful of the temperatures you are dealing with. Natural Gas is usually output around 150 C, that is more than enough to overheat and break a gas pump that is not made out of steel. It would be a big headache if you set everything up, only to have your pump break right after you start. Breaking your storage box back open to fix things will need all sorts of clean up.

Isn't overhitting problems only for buildings? I thought that for pipes and wires only the melting point of the material itself mattered. I'm not seeing the overheat information/properties when looking at pipes.

[POWER WITHIN USER]

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

A room or reservoirs?

A reservoir because you spent 240w/500g of gas and releasing said gas from pipes means you're paying extra power for no reason.

Using the high-pressure vent, I can store 20kg per tile.

While storing as much natural gas as you can seems like a great idea, it's actually a waste. You should be trying to store a reasonable amount of it (such as one reservoir's worth, 150kg) then convert the excess into (polluted or regular) water which stores at 5000kg/reservoir or 1000kg/tile and is a far more useful substance.

[gtgiygus]

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

Isn't overhitting problems only for buildings? I thought that for pipes and wires only the melting point of the material itself mattered. I'm not seeing the overheat information/properties when looking at pipes.

The "gas pump" itself is what you will build to pump the gas back out of the storage. Therefor it will need to be built before you seal everything up to start pumping gas inside of it. The overheat temperature for gas pumps is 75 degrees C. When it hits 75C, it will start to break (not melt) until it is useless.

I am only talking about the pump to get the gas back out (and maybe to pump it in as well), not any pipes.

[Rex Lupus]

Originally posted by POWER WITHIN USER:

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

A room or reservoirs?

A reservoir because you spent 240w/500g of gas and releasing said gas from pipes means you're paying extra power for no reason.

Using the high-pressure vent, I can store 20kg per tile.

While storing as much natural gas as you can seems like a great idea, it's actually a waste. You should be trying to store a reasonable amount of it (such as one reservoir's worth, 150kg) then convert the excess into (polluted or regular) water which stores at 5000kg/reservoir or 1000kg/tile and is a far more useful substance.

the reason would be to save space. As I mentioned, using a pure room would allow me to have more gas per tile. that would need more power for a second pump, yes, but would be just 120w extra as I would need the first pump regardless if I will send the gas to a room or reservoir.

Originally posted by gtgiygus:

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

Isn't overhitting problems only for buildings? I thought that for pipes and wires only the melting point of the material itself mattered. I'm not seeing the overheat information/properties when looking at pipes.

The "gas pump" itself is what you will build to pump the gas back out of the storage. Therefor it will need to be built before you seal everything up to start pumping gas inside of it. The overheat temperature for gas pumps is 75 degrees C. When it hits 75C, it will start to break (not melt) until it is useless.

I am only talking about the pump to get the gas back out (and maybe to pump it in as well), not any pipes.

Oh, ok, the pump I'm aware of. Thank you.

[caseyas435943]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Both choices you mention work fine; they are also not mutually exclusive. Pumping gas costs power so you should disable the gas pump below ~100 g pressure.

You tune up a Gas geyser you can make them insanely good. Getting 3 generators running 24/7 tune one just 3 times. That nice power for 1 geyser.

Natural gas is easy to tame as well. The gas cools very quickly. You store the gas and don't let it over pressure.

Two gas geyser I can power my whole base.

Or you can build all the silly things guys do like boilers which you never need ever.

Everyone crying about wasting power. That what most everyone does what they just burn the gas off.

Or building boilers then running generators 24/7 to burn of the liquid you are making because you are making too much. Every build is about waste.

[Bobucles]

Why not both? A gas chamber can fit gas storage inside it. Pump gas into the storage and it's ready to use in a generator.

A single gas pump moving 500g chunks of nat gas is handling 4.4kJ of energy, while costing 240J of energy. This part is mandatory for pulling gas into the pipe network for the gas generator. Extra storage steps will eat into the energy efficiency of your system.

Even then, it is difficult to store a large amount of nat gas. It's not that the gas generator is particularly hungry, but rather that gas storage is so thin. A single reservoir(on airflow tiles) will take up 5x4 space. The reservoir holds 150kg, and the air (at a geyser comfortable 4kg pressure) holds another 80kg. Spending 25 tiles for 230kg of gas is a lot of space, and only good enough to power a single gas generator for 4 cycles. Holding enough gas to survive a geyser dormant cycle will take a huge amount of space.

It's easier to just use the gas energy as you get it. Save up solid fuel like coal and wood, they pack up to incredibly high density. Advanced players can try cooling the nat gas into a liquid to massively boost their storage efficiency, but that is more of a sour gas boiler problem. Nat gas geysers don't pump out enough gas to make it worth the effort.

[robotnikkkk]

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

Using the high-pressure vent, I can store 20kg per tile.

............... WHAT??????????

.......... *WITH VERY IRONY AND SARCASM* LET ME INTRODUCE TO INFINITE STORAGES =!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

............... OKAY JUST MAKE A SCREENSHOT SO U COULD VE UNDERSTAND CONCEPT https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014766571

.............. IT'S ABUSE OF GAS VENT MECHANICS AS IT SAYS "NO MORE THAN 2000g!!!!" BUT IT DOESNT TELL WHAT EXACTLY ,LIQUID OR GAS,JUST WHATEVER ..........JUST POUR SOME LIQUID THAT U'LL BE SURE THAT NOT EVAPORATE,AND DO SETUP LIKE THIS BUT DONT FORGET TO VACUUM THING UP BEFORE USE!!!!!!

............... ALSO......... IT'S REALLY POSSIBLE TO MAKE THE INF STORAGE WITH LIKE 1 TILE WITH LESS THAN 2000g OF HYDROGEN BUT IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY MUCH TRICKY BUT MAY BE EASIER AS GAS PIPE EMPTYING GIVES <=1000g.......... U'LL FIGURE OUT,RIGHT???????I HOPE SO....... I WOULDNT GET ANYWHERE WITHOUT THEM

................ ALSO THERES LOTS OF YT TUTORIALS LIKE THIS ONE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7eJY4VZrN8

............... SO........ OF COURSE ROOMS ARE BETTER BECAUSE INFINITE STORAGE IS A ROOM!!!! ..........

........... I HOPE THAT'LL REALLY HELP

[B0RIS]

Originally posted by robotnikkkk:

Originally posted by Rex Lupus:

Using the high-pressure vent, I can store 20kg per tile.

............... WHAT??????????

.......... *WITH VERY IRONY AND SARCASM* LET ME INTRODUCE TO INFINITE STORAGES =!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

............... OKAY JUST MAKE A SCREENSHOT SO U COULD VE UNDERSTAND CONCEPT https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014766571

.............. IT'S ABUSE OF GAS VENT MECHANICS AS IT SAYS "NO MORE THAN 2000g!!!!" BUT IT DOESNT TELL WHAT EXACTLY ,LIQUID OR GAS,JUST WHATEVER ..........JUST POUR SOME LIQUID THAT U'LL BE SURE THAT NOT EVAPORATE,AND DO SETUP LIKE THIS BUT DONT FORGET TO VACUUM THING UP BEFORE USE!!!!!!

............... ALSO......... IT'S REALLY POSSIBLE TO MAKE THE INF STORAGE WITH LIKE 1 TILE WITH LESS THAN 2000g OF HYDROGEN BUT IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY MUCH TRICKY BUT MAY BE EASIER AS GAS PIPE EMPTYING GIVES <=1000g.......... U'LL FIGURE OUT,RIGHT???????I HOPE SO....... I WOULDNT GET ANYWHERE WITHOUT THEM

................ ALSO THERES LOTS OF YT TUTORIALS LIKE THIS ONE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7eJY4VZrN8

............... SO........ OF COURSE ROOMS ARE BETTER BECAUSE INFINITE STORAGE IS A ROOM!!!! ..........

........... I HOPE THAT'LL REALLY HELP

this is the 2nd thread now I see ur wacky comments. It seems like you have something useful to say. So how about you make the effort to type legibly, instead making us do the work.

because, hate to break it to you, but nobody's reading that. turn off the all caps and type like a grownup

[Xeno42]

Originally posted by B0RIS:

Originally posted by robotnikkkk:

............... WHAT??????????

this is the 2nd thread now I see ur wacky comments. It seems like you have something useful to say. So how about you make the effort to type legibly, instead making us do the work.

because, hate to break it to you, but nobody's reading that. turn off the all caps and type like a grownup

it reminds me of getting emails from my grandfather because he hit the capslock key and didnt notice

[B0RIS]

Originally posted by Xeno42:

Originally posted by B0RIS:

this is the 2nd thread now I see ur wacky comments. It seems like you have something useful to say. So how about you make the effort to type legibly, instead making us do the work.

because, hate to break it to you, but nobody's reading that. turn off the all caps and type like a grownup

it reminds me of getting emails from my grandfather because he hit the capslock key and didnt notice

it's frustrating bc I think they have something to contribute, but it's like they never learned basic etiquette

I mean, you dont have to try very hard, just type a little slower.

[XceptOne]

@robotnikkkk
We usually won't explain very advanced concepts like infinite storage (among other things) to new players.
The reasoning is:
- newbies are easily overwhelmed with new information
- this is an engineering game, the focus lies on experimenting, failing and improving; just handing out the 'best' and 'easiest' solutions pretty much stops that from happening (and with it most of the fun (and also frustration) you can have)
- if a newbeetiny advances enough, he/she will either try out this stuff on her own or ask specific questions, often both (and eventually learn to fly ;)
- all this means hinting is often better than presenting solutions, so newbeetinies can learn/fail on their own schedule

Anyway, mentioning these things should be handled carefully
...which bring us to the main problem quite specific to you (and sometimes others):
You don't explain in detail how and why it works. There is no mention of pre-/postconditions and expected effects and failure states. From an engineering standpoint this isn't worth much.
Do that and your ramblings might contain some more usable value.

Anyway the second, maybe next time at least post some actually sane build (and sorry I'm not really in the mood for detailed explaining right now myself)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014828054
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896053218
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896053235


(You also may have noticed that your style of posting disconnected thought-like snippets tends to aggravate people. Lose that, write more coherently and people will be much more eager to actually engage in discussion with you. They'll probably be able to ignore the whole capslock thing then, too.
So please take into account that disregarding any form of written etiquette is usually considered rude.)

[B0RIS]

Originally posted by XceptOne:

@robotnikk
We usually won't explain very advanced concepts like infinite storage (among other things) to new players.
The reasoning is:
- newbies are easily overwhelmed with new information
- this is an engineering game, the focus lies on experimenting, failing and improving; just handing out the 'best' and 'easiest' solutions pretty much stops that from happening (and with it most of the fun (and also frustration) you can have)
- if a newbeetiny advances enough, he/she will either try out this stuff on her own or ask specific questions, often both (and eventually learn to fly ;)

Anyway, mentioning these things should be handled carefully
...which bring us to the main problem quite specific to you (and sometimes others):
You don't explain in detail how and why it works. There is no mention of pre-/postconditions and expected effects and failure states. From an engineering standpoint this isn't worth much.
Do that and your ramblings might contain some more usable value.

Anyway the second, maybe next time at least post some actually sane build (and sorry I'm not really in the mood for detailed explaining right now myself)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3014828054
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896053218
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896053235


(You also may have noticed that your style of posting disconnected thought-like snippets tends to aggravate people. Lose that, write more coherently and people will be much more eager to actually engage in discussion with you. They'll probably be able to ignore the whole capslock thing then, too.
So please take into account that disregarding any form of written etiquette is usually considered rude.)

well said and quite helpful