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hydraxize Nov 2, 2022 @ 3:04am
Carbon skimmer / Water sieve loop is not working
Does anyone know what is wrong in this setup?
https://imgur.com/a/HAsMYvG

The Carbon skimmer didn't start up after I plugged it in.
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Originally posted by umop-apisdn:
Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:
Originally posted by umop-apisdn:
If it functions, it's "the right way".
Well it does not work - after 73% of one cycle the loop will be overfilled to the point where the carbon skimmer stops working.
In general, loops do not work if they are completely full. There are a couple of options to deal with that ranging from the addition of reservoirs, double pipe bridge trickery but the easiest fix is to just disconnect the external pump and then having a plumber empty pipe segments until the loop can run again.
The corollary to my statement is "If it doesn't work, it's probably not hooked up right."
Sorry, I was speaking flippantly, assuming hydraxize would discover in short order that it was not actually working and realize they needed to remove the input line after getting some water into the loop.

I know it sounds like I'm being a jerk, hydraxize; bear with me for a moment, and I'll do my best to help you solve this issue, as well as give you the information you need to resolve future plumbing problems.

Plumbing can be a huge pain in the butt... but once you figure out pipe/bridge priority and directional hints, the game gets a lot easier.

Quick and dirty priority cheat sheet:
  • Input nodes (white icon, arrow points into box) will steal anything they can from the main line unless and until their own line is full (ie, the bridged line stalls or backs up).
  • Output nodes (green icon, arrow points away from box) can only place packets on the line if there is space to receive it; if there is an existing full packet of the same liquid as the bridge is sending, or any liquid at all that doesn't match the liquid in the bridge, then the bridge will stall until it has room.
In other words, bridging from an existing line will give the bridge the right of way... but bridging to a line gives the existing line priority.

Now, on to fixing your specific issue:

The Carbon Skimmer only uses 1 kg at a time. The Water Sieve, on the other hand, wants to process 5kg at a time; so you'll need at least 5kg in the line. 1 full "bubble" or "packet" of water is 10kg, which is twice as much as is (strictly speaking) necessary. Yes, you really can run a skimmer/sieve combo on half a packet of water. I tend to fill half the loop, for the sake of thoroughness, but you can use a relatively tiny amount and it will work just fine.

Contrary to one's reflexive thought, you don't actually want your self-contained loop to be completely full; the machines themselves have a small storage inside them, which introduces... let's call it "lag" to the system; some of the fluid is inside the skimmer, and some of the fluid is inside the sieve... so the pipe looks like there's room for more water, but there's actually no room left in the loop. When you get to that point, the loop stops because there's nowhere for the liquid to go... which means there's no way to add more to the machine, either. To put it another way, there has to be enough room to push the machine's output onto the line in order for that machine to take in more input.

To resolve the issue that will occur in your second image: Disconnect the pump line from the input connector on the skimmer, then empty a couple packets from your pipes; either by using the plumbing tool at the bottom-right corner of the screen (if you have a dupe with level 2 Tidying), or by the simple expedient of deleting (and then rebuilding) a pipe segment or two. That should solve this particular catastrophe, and get your skimmer skimming again.

Next time you go to fill a loop, try using a pipe bridge to add the liquid... and do it while the equipment is off so the machines don't help you overfill the loop. Either add a switch to the wire on the power supply side of the equipment, or simply don't hook the wires up until after the loop is filled.

Using the first image you shared as an example, I would bridge on to the elbow on the bottom-right. The liquid will move away from the sieve's output, toward the skimmer's input. As soon as you have a 10kg packet in the line, you can remove the bridge... but even if the dupes don't get there for a while, and you add a full 60 kg to your loop before the input line stalls, it's no big deal... just be sure to leave some empty space in the line, and you'll be alright. Assuming you remembered to fill the loop before connecting the power, then worst-case scenario the other line from the skimmer's output to the sieve's input (the elbow on the upper-left) will still be empty... which should leave plenty of room for circulation to happen even if you manage to completely fill the line from the sieve to the skimmer (the elbow on the bottom-right).

Plumbing in this game can be difficult to wrap your head around. Try not to get discouraged; I promise it will "click" eventually, and suddenly plumbing will be instinctive instead of an uphill battle.

For a more in-depth exploration of the plumbing mechanics, see https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/94932-a-guide-to-bridges-and-how-they-help-you-achieve-efficiency-and-flow/
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Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
POWER WITHIN USER Nov 2, 2022 @ 3:06am 
The carbon skimmer requires some water to be piped into it in order to start working.
#1
hydraxize Nov 2, 2022 @ 3:13am 
Originally posted by POWER WITHIN USER:
The carbon skimmer requires some water to be piped into it in order to start working.
Thank you ONI fellow! I've tried this config:
https://imgur.com/a/9ESf47N
It seems to work, is it the right way to do?
#2
umop-apisdn Nov 2, 2022 @ 3:23am 
If it functions, it's "the right way".

Now that there's some liquid in the loop, you can disconnect the pipe from the pump, and it will continue working with its closed loop.
#3
AlexMBrennan Nov 2, 2022 @ 9:46am 
If it functions, it's "the right way".
Well it does not work - after 73% of one cycle the loop will be overfilled to the point where the carbon skimmer stops working.

In general, loops do not work if they are completely full. There are a couple of options to deal with that ranging from the addition of reservoirs, double pipe bridge trickery but the easiest fix is to just disconnect the external pump and then having a plumber empty pipe segments until the loop can run again.
#4
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
umop-apisdn Nov 2, 2022 @ 3:04pm 
Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:
Originally posted by umop-apisdn:
If it functions, it's "the right way".
Well it does not work - after 73% of one cycle the loop will be overfilled to the point where the carbon skimmer stops working.
In general, loops do not work if they are completely full. There are a couple of options to deal with that ranging from the addition of reservoirs, double pipe bridge trickery but the easiest fix is to just disconnect the external pump and then having a plumber empty pipe segments until the loop can run again.
The corollary to my statement is "If it doesn't work, it's probably not hooked up right."
Sorry, I was speaking flippantly, assuming hydraxize would discover in short order that it was not actually working and realize they needed to remove the input line after getting some water into the loop.

I know it sounds like I'm being a jerk, hydraxize; bear with me for a moment, and I'll do my best to help you solve this issue, as well as give you the information you need to resolve future plumbing problems.

Plumbing can be a huge pain in the butt... but once you figure out pipe/bridge priority and directional hints, the game gets a lot easier.

Quick and dirty priority cheat sheet:
  • Input nodes (white icon, arrow points into box) will steal anything they can from the main line unless and until their own line is full (ie, the bridged line stalls or backs up).
  • Output nodes (green icon, arrow points away from box) can only place packets on the line if there is space to receive it; if there is an existing full packet of the same liquid as the bridge is sending, or any liquid at all that doesn't match the liquid in the bridge, then the bridge will stall until it has room.
In other words, bridging from an existing line will give the bridge the right of way... but bridging to a line gives the existing line priority.

Now, on to fixing your specific issue:

The Carbon Skimmer only uses 1 kg at a time. The Water Sieve, on the other hand, wants to process 5kg at a time; so you'll need at least 5kg in the line. 1 full "bubble" or "packet" of water is 10kg, which is twice as much as is (strictly speaking) necessary. Yes, you really can run a skimmer/sieve combo on half a packet of water. I tend to fill half the loop, for the sake of thoroughness, but you can use a relatively tiny amount and it will work just fine.

Contrary to one's reflexive thought, you don't actually want your self-contained loop to be completely full; the machines themselves have a small storage inside them, which introduces... let's call it "lag" to the system; some of the fluid is inside the skimmer, and some of the fluid is inside the sieve... so the pipe looks like there's room for more water, but there's actually no room left in the loop. When you get to that point, the loop stops because there's nowhere for the liquid to go... which means there's no way to add more to the machine, either. To put it another way, there has to be enough room to push the machine's output onto the line in order for that machine to take in more input.

To resolve the issue that will occur in your second image: Disconnect the pump line from the input connector on the skimmer, then empty a couple packets from your pipes; either by using the plumbing tool at the bottom-right corner of the screen (if you have a dupe with level 2 Tidying), or by the simple expedient of deleting (and then rebuilding) a pipe segment or two. That should solve this particular catastrophe, and get your skimmer skimming again.

Next time you go to fill a loop, try using a pipe bridge to add the liquid... and do it while the equipment is off so the machines don't help you overfill the loop. Either add a switch to the wire on the power supply side of the equipment, or simply don't hook the wires up until after the loop is filled.

Using the first image you shared as an example, I would bridge on to the elbow on the bottom-right. The liquid will move away from the sieve's output, toward the skimmer's input. As soon as you have a 10kg packet in the line, you can remove the bridge... but even if the dupes don't get there for a while, and you add a full 60 kg to your loop before the input line stalls, it's no big deal... just be sure to leave some empty space in the line, and you'll be alright. Assuming you remembered to fill the loop before connecting the power, then worst-case scenario the other line from the skimmer's output to the sieve's input (the elbow on the upper-left) will still be empty... which should leave plenty of room for circulation to happen even if you manage to completely fill the line from the sieve to the skimmer (the elbow on the bottom-right).

Plumbing in this game can be difficult to wrap your head around. Try not to get discouraged; I promise it will "click" eventually, and suddenly plumbing will be instinctive instead of an uphill battle.

For a more in-depth exploration of the plumbing mechanics, see https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/94932-a-guide-to-bridges-and-how-they-help-you-achieve-efficiency-and-flow/
Last edited by umop-apisdn; Nov 2, 2022 @ 3:33pm
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Date Posted: Nov 2, 2022 @ 3:04am
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