Question about trait skill

[Wish Granter]

Hey,

ive been wondering....
When you level up research, it only lets duplicant gain skill points faster,

but if you level if f.e building, which, if you dont use the more then necessary demolish gravitas buildings mod so you dont need to superheat a table lamp to make it despawn out of the way, you gain nothing, exept the trait point.

Now, levelling up does cost EXP for the specific trait, so giving somone early on f.e building -skill- one, it would boost his level by 2, giving additional 50% building speed, but would slow down his natural progress by alot, right?

As gaining level 1 building is much faster then gaining level 3.

Or does the Skill not touch the trait at all, and just run a calculation what the pawn already has as trait level and then just makes it +2, not changing the exp requirement at all?

[glass zebra]

Not sure about the xp calculations, but the stuff from skills and traits are bonuses on top of the attribute level. Attributes cap out at 20 and everything else can boost it beyond that. It would be pretty terrible if they saved it separately as a bonus for the total attribute effect, but would just ignore that for the xp. Most games either go full into separate summands or ignore all of that and act is if there is just the stat.

There only thing I've mentioned is that people level up still fairly quickly if you give them a bunch of skills to a low attribute dupe, but that is just perception and not code knowledge.

[Wish Granter]

ye. Gotte test around with that. If it recalcuates XP, giving somone new at the beginning directly 1-2 building skills just because he likes it would slow down his progress by alot as he now has to grind directly level 6 instead of level 2. If I would let him fast level up to level 4 on his own and then apply said skill he would have 8 in waaaay less time.

[glass zebra]

You gotta go the carry + tinker path anyway to unlock the ability to build new stuff with them. The carry path is also super good for new dupes because without the first skill they can barely carry anything at all.

[POWER WITHIN USER]

I recall reading that a higher attribute level from skills was detrimental for speed based tasks as it only cares about:
Duplicants' own attribute modifier - ie. interests (but not from skill points or traits).
Time spent doing a task.
Science's gain multiplier.

Giving someone extra skill points in construction would mean they'd level them slightly slower due to the delay between each construction task (from processing lag or walking time).
If a duplicant needs to be trained you're better off boosting their science and letting them grind until they're at a decent enough level (ie. get to +15 athletics, skill wipe them and let them get the other 5 remaining points eventually by actually working).

[glass zebra]

At that point you could ask yourself why you level them in the first place though, as it is usually so your work gets done sooner. No idea if you can go over +280% right now.

[Wish Granter]

Originally posted by POWER WITHIN USER:

I recall reading that a higher attribute level from skills was detrimental for speed based tasks as it only cares about:
Duplicants' own attribute modifier - ie. interests (but not from skill points or traits).
Time spent doing a task.
Science's gain multiplier.

Giving someone extra skill points in construction would mean they'd level them slightly slower due to the delay between each construction task (from processing lag or walking time).
If a duplicant needs to be trained you're better off boosting their science and letting them grind until they're at a decent enough level (ie. get to +15 athletics, skill wipe them and let them get the other 5 remaining points eventually by actually working).

Interesting yes. I always challange myself to start a fully eqipped rocket with big spacer module on cycle 75 so I kina rush but its doable without building skills f.e. Of course you need to digging skills, no discussion there.

So it doesnt seem to directly reset levels and force them to level harder levels directly, more it cuts theire exp gain cause they just rampage trough task and finish tiles in like a fraction of a second.

I guess if you would really want to grind it you would go for tempshift plates and resetting building, or just building 50 outhouses and having somone clean then.
Cleaning outhouses, damn that strengh level.

I noticed that manual radbolt generators are also great level for somone without tinkering, as I never let them tinker generators as they have only + like 2 cycles while my better ones tinker them for +5 cycles.
And since I figured out how to automate manual radbolt generators without much effort invested its a great radbolt generation too.

[Wish Granter]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

At that point you could ask yourself why you level them in the first place though, as it is usually so your work gets done sooner. No idea if you can go over +280% right now.

I guess its more a back and forth stragetie, you level them via skill so you can get important stuff done fast, then cut theire skills when you got some exess work force and let them level stuff up, to reorder theire skills and have machines on your hand.

[Wish Granter]

I hate how it also resets skills they start with. If you got a mechantronik guy, and you reset his skills, he simply looses his starting skill and you are forced to invest 3 skill points if you want him to regain it.

I feel, since they have 0 morale reqirement for those beginner or starter perks that they should not
loose them in the skill scrubber. As it forces the player to buy the whole tree anyway.
Since the skill scrubber "resets the pawn to how he was printed" with 0 skills. But he already had that skill when being printed.
Feels like defragmenting my C hard drive would suddenly deinstall windows.

[glass zebra]

They are currently tackling bugs (they did quite a few things for ranching) and might tackle the skill reset too. At least you get an extra skill point on reset, though you can't put it back in when it's some far off skill. I currently have an Ari with building interest and Mechatronics Engineering as a free skill, which is pretty much the best thing I could have encountered. Reseting and only getting it back by skilling 4 other things without interest is pretty annoying, even though I want them at some point anyway.

[Wish Granter]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

They are currently tackling bugs (they did quite a few things for ranching) and might tackle the skill reset too. At least you get an extra skill point on reset, though you can't put it back in when it's some far off skill. I currently have an Ari with building interest and Mechatronics Engineering as a free skill, which is pretty much the best thing I could have encountered. Reseting and only getting it back by skilling 4 other things without interest is pretty annoying, even though I want them at some point anyway.

ye. Its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, need to be more careful on what I give those.

Haha, yeah, the amount of rerolling when the pod turns on is insane. Tried one time without that mod, and till cycle 80- something I didnt get a 4th dupe as literally everyone I got had either mouth breathing, narcoleptic and the need for light in while sleeping (a permanent +10% stress when combined) or were level (yes, literally) !! 11 !! operating or building but were - incapable of building or operating -.......The guy I took out of cryosleep on the second planet had 11 cooking, nothing else, and was incapable of cooking.

Yep, reload it is, the only stuff for what I actually reload.
They should really add some roles for traits. Like a level 10 cook that is gourmet (+3 additional cooking) and then is gastrophobic? Really?
Like the Rimworld Glitterworld Chirug that is a medical officer but incapable of caring.

Also I noticed that if the pod offers somone with Tidying +4 Strenght and Supplying +4 Strenght it doesnt multiple. I expected +4 +4 to be + 8 but nope.

[glass zebra]

Was pretty sure they fixed having interests conflict with disabling traits. I remember reading something like that in some notes, but maybe it was just a bug report.. and I got lucky ever since.

Yeah if you get 2 boni for the same skill it does not stack. Still 2 interests for basically the same job.

[Wish Granter]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Was pretty sure they fixed having interests conflict with disabling traits. I remember reading something like that in some notes, but maybe it was just a bug report.. and I got lucky ever since.

Yeah if you get 2 boni for the same skill it does not stack. Still 2 interests for basically the same job.

hmm seems like a bug to me too. As there is only a single thing that could stack, and that is strenght. No other thing (if you dont count Personal traits such as grease monkey) stacks when printed. Strenght is the only one, but honestly, if it reads +7 Strength. (Tidying) +7 Strenght (Supplying) you would figure its +14. Probaly a visual error to say so.

[glass zebra]

It's more like "attribute level is x when printed" and not "bonus of +x".

[Wish Granter]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

It's more like "attribute level is x when printed" and not "bonus of +x".

ye its just shown as exactly that. as a + + bonus.
More like a misinformation, something not really explained. Its not a big deal as strength is the only thing that can have that, but somewhat annoying I guess if you stomble over it.
They could add some more little tutorial videos. Cute little clips.

F.e Germs tutorial should show up as soon as you build a sink or a toilet, not after somone already spread germs troughout the whole solar system :D.