So... cooling loops a bit harder now

[Ekimmak]

There's now a materials science research requirement on tier 5 research and higher.
Most of this, you could live without. Stuff that's nice to have, but not mandatory until much later in the game.

Two of them, not so much. Memory Toggles are pretty important for things like capping petroleum produced (although they're just doing what liquid resevoirs do, so not overly the worst. Just very noticeable)

But Steam Turbines are another matter. They're very important in cooling loops, being the thing that actually deletes the heat. Just how do you get material science stations to even work (especially if you have Super Sustainable to worry about, and can't run those power hog radbolt generators reliably 24/7)

[AlexMBrennan]

I guess you will just have to vent superheated garbage into space until you can unlock the steam turbine then.

[bwhitejr]

The power for the radbolt generators is definitely a roadblock, but it's not hard once you figure out how to set up for it, and just run dedicated coal gens for the radbolt collectors. two wheezeworts will get you to unlocking steam turbines and solar pretty easily - 4 is better.
I definitely think they need to move steam and solar earlier in the tech tree, however.

[Ekimmak]

So Wheezeworts, then?

I was wondering about if there was a way to do it with shine bugs. But it doesn't seem possible to build a quick-and-dirty room that they can keep the centre imbued with enough radiation to make it run effectively. The number of tiles they need just doesn't fit well with it.

[bwhitejr]

Originally posted by Ekimmak:

So Wheezeworts, then?

I was wondering about if there was a way to do it with shine bugs. But it doesn't seem possible to build a quick-and-dirty room that they can keep the centre imbued with enough radiation to make it run effectively. The number of tiles they need just doesn't fit well with it.

It can be done, Brothgar's latest videos have a shinebug generator for the collectors, and he was getting some ridiculous amount of radbolts, but yeah, it takes some experience to set it up, he has an automated farm for shinebugs.

Wheezes are way easier, if you have the power. 4 of them is a decent amount - if you have the phosphorite. Just a lot slower.

[Ekimmak]

Automated Shinebug farm sounds like a pain. Never gotten one of those, barely manage to get working hatch ranches.

[fluxtorrent]

I've got a manual shinebug farm for mine, just dropepd an unpowered incubator next to my radbolt generator, when a new egg drops use that to "sweep" it into the room, then eject it and let the thing hatch wild

[caseyas435943]

Another head scratcher in the DLC. Making some thing so easy they are almost giving it to you. But then make radvolt generators power hogs to try and slow you don't.

Locking solar behind nuclear is an odd place.

It's like you can get a car but the wheel is locked until after you get the car.

Either make it hard or make it easy. Don't do both or trying to is silly design.

I'd love to be at one of their meetings and ask why on some of the changes. But one is food. Why was it important to make storage a pain now. But then change the way plants grow making only a few plants can feed 10+ dupes.

Make one so easy it's silly the other a big pain in the butt.

Why is one good and the other bad?

I think they are both bad.

[Ekimmak]

Food rotting now applying to things outside of deep freeze AND sterile environments makes the game just feel less efficient. You can't just have shine bug critter feeders in a carbon sink anymore, they'll eventually go bad.

[AlexMBrennan]

Locking solar behind nuclear is an odd place.

Why would you bother with nuclear when solar provides infinite risk-free power without any need for complex infrastructure (thanks to the removal of meteor showers)?

No one is going to pay for nuclear power DLC if solar power easier, safer and available at no extra cost because it's already in the base game.

[CrazyOdd]

Originally posted by Ekimmak:

Food rotting now applying to things outside of deep freeze AND sterile environments makes the game just feel less efficient. You can't just have shine bug critter feeders in a carbon sink anymore, they'll eventually go bad.

If food lays in storage, long enough to rot, you are making way too much.

[Shame]

Are you worried about base game here? The DLC has cool slush geysers for cooling and they are plenty enough. Base game needs a balance overhaul overall.

[Ekimmak]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Why would you bother with nuclear when solar provides infinite risk-free power without any need for complex infrastructure (thanks to the removal of meteor showers)?

Nuclear POWER is actually locked behind space "and" material research. Solar power is just behind nuclear.

But you need nuclear research to unlock solar power, and that's very power expensive (especially if you're going for super sustainable, a 480W run around the clock is very hard to keep up on)

Originally posted by CrazyOdd:

If food lays in storage, long enough to rot, you are making way too much.

I aim for Carnivore every time, so I'm used to just throwing everything into the kitchen at once, in hopes that I'll have enough food to survive the initial lull in edible matter until the ranches start producing meat.

And in DLC, once ranches start producing 100% uptime, there's still going to be lulls, so I still need a food buffer.

Originally posted by Shame:

Are you worried about base game here? The DLC has cool slush geysers for cooling and they are plenty enough. Base game needs a balance overhaul overall.

I have been considering that. Place the SPOM in space, build a metal tile overlay where I'd normally have a steam generator, and then dump new cool slush on top of it, so that when it turns into steam, it vents the new heat into space.

[CrazyOdd]

Originally posted by Ekimmak:

Originally posted by CrazyOdd:

If food lays in storage, long enough to rot, you are making way too much.

I aim for Carnivore every time, so I'm used to just throwing everything into the kitchen at once, in hopes that I'll have enough food to survive the initial lull in edible matter until the ranches start producing meat.

And in DLC, once ranches start producing 100% uptime, there's still going to be lulls, so I still need a food buffer.

Carnivore, still allows you to have farms. So unless you go for the No Plant one at the same time, its not really an issue. Specially, since all the dups, need to train plants first, to work on creatures.

[Ekimmak]

Originally posted by CrazyOdd:

Carnivore, still allows you to have farms. So unless you go for the No Plant one at the same time, its not really an issue. Specially, since all the dups, need to train plants first, to work on creatures.

I specifically do. It's a really bad habit that's curbed my ability to see any of the new content, but I hate the idea of just failing the achievements, so I always aim to knock out Locavore, Carnivore, and Supersustainable at the same time.

Now you know why I'm so vocal about hating Steam Turbines being locked by radiation research.

[CrazyOdd]

Originally posted by Ekimmak:

Originally posted by CrazyOdd:

Carnivore, still allows you to have farms. So unless you go for the No Plant one at the same time, its not really an issue. Specially, since all the dups, need to train plants first, to work on creatures.

I specifically do. It's a really bad habit that's curbed my ability to see any of the new content, but I hate the idea of just failing the achievements, so I always aim to knock out Locavore, Carnivore, and Supersustainable at the same time.

Now you know why I'm so vocal about hating Steam Turbines being locked by radiation research.

Locavore dont have a time limit, like Carnivore. So I would do it seperate.