R.I.P Infinite Co2 food storage for vanilla ONI

[Alucard †]

They gonna apply some of the Spaced Out! changes including the food storage one to the base game even for those who don't own dlc.

Guess i'll enjoy it while it lasts :P

[In-Bread Dog]

Pain peko

[chaney]

Be a hero and mod it back in, everyone will love you.

There is:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2217283353&searchtext=food+rot
which looks like it allows you to set food to not rot at all, which I understand is not exactly the same. Heck, I don't even know if the mod works, but for those of you unhappy with the change, it could be a starting point to fix your problem.

[Alucard †]

I will miss this "feature" greatly but i'll probably won't fix it with mods.
Cause i guess that's always some extra challenge and Fridges will be actually useful now.

[Cyrus]

Honestly, this change has little impact overall as you should already be producing more than you consume. This just auto 'expires' food so you don't end up with millions of food that sits there and does.... nothing.

Now, you can better monitor your consumption vs production and strike a better balance instead of overproducing and sitting on millions of Kcals.

That being said there are already several nice designs using similar infinite storage systems that make use of a basic thermal regulator and some hydrogen to create a freezer for minimal power consumption once again creating the infinite storage.

The one i am using stores everything in a single tile of chlorine gas with a couple metal tiles to act as a buffer sitting at a comfy -25C and accesible though a simple naptha liquid lock. Its extremley simple yet very effective.

Adapt and overcome - its the best thing about this game. You have a ton of options for 'fix' this problem. Though I do think fridges need to be updated/ buffed up a bit as they are pretty lackluster.

[Manxome]

If you want to have an emergency stockpile that your dupes can eat for a while in case something goes catastrophically wrong with your food production, then either you need long-term food storage or you need to overproduce food by at least (desired stockpile / rot time) forever in order to continuously replenish the reserve.

Storage is also pretty handy for smoothing out irregular production. Pepper bread goes bad in 4 days, but sleet wheat takes 18 cycles to grow (72 cycles if wild), so if your sleet wheat all gets harvested at once, you could have more than enough average food production, but still end up starving.

[Cyrus]

Originally posted by Manxome:

If you want to have an emergency stockpile that your dupes can eat for a while in case something goes catastrophically wrong with your food production, then either you need long-term food storage or you need to overproduce food by at least (desired stockpile / rot time) forever in order to continuously replenish the reserve.

Storage is also pretty handy for smoothing out irregular production. Pepper bread goes bad in 4 days, but sleet wheat takes 18 cycles to grow (72 cycles if wild), so if your sleet wheat all gets harvested at once, you could have more than enough average food production, but still end up starving.

I don't fully disagree, however that argument could be said for many aspects of this game where a small miscalculation, or an unnoticed 'error' becomes catastrophic. (I mean who hasn't accidentally killed their O2 production, or didn't notice their cooling loop stopped and 'cooked' all their plants) And now with Nuclear.. that's a whole other level of catastrophic failure :D :D

However, Put that pepper bread in a fridge, in a CO2 (or Chlorine) pit and it will last almost 5x as long. That easily achievable early on, and not much later you can Invest into a small 'chill' room with a (previosuly mostly unused) thermal regulator and you can once again achieve 'unlimited' fairly early on.

Was it a reletivley unexpected change to a 'core' mechanic that's been used and abused for ages? For sure, but sitting on millions of Kcals by simply dumping food into a CO2 pit (and made several techs totally useless except to 'waste' power) was flat out broken for so long.

But it is nice to see this change being made to a mechnic that really didnt make a whole lot of sense and was just vastly superior to every other food storage method out there and achievable.. day 1.

[bwhitejr]

Originally posted by Cyrus:

Honestly, this change has little impact overall as you should already be producing more than you consume. This just auto 'expires' food so you don't end up with millions of food that sits there and does.... nothing.

This. I hated having to manage 800k of meal lice the dupes aren't gonna eat, and moving it was a pain. I'm not shocked they changed it, honestly.
I'm kind of braced for them to make slimelung actually dangerous again, because you can power through most diseases with no need to make a sickbay.

[Zuz]

Originally posted by ⎛ Alucard ⎞ ✟:

They gonna apply some of the Spaced Out! changes including the food storage one to the base game even for those who don't own dlc.

Guess i'll enjoy it while it lasts :P

I have a very simple solution that works just like vanilla, but takes a pinch of power to run. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2510643933

[Alucard †]

Originally posted by Zorb:

Originally posted by ⎛ Alucard ⎞ ✟:

They gonna apply some of the Spaced Out! changes including the food storage one to the base game even for those who don't own dlc.

Guess i'll enjoy it while it lasts :P

I have a very simple solution that works just like vanilla, but takes a pinch of power to run. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2510643933

How does that work?
Cause i'm not savvy enough to figure out how certain contraptions in this game work just from looking at the finished build.

[Zuz]

Originally posted by ⎛ Alucard ⎞ ✟:

How does that work?
Cause i'm not savvy enough to figure out how certain contraptions in this game work just from looking at the finished build.

It's easy to build. Make a box of insulated tiles (ceramic is preferred, but normal stone works), then run a gas pipe through the box (Use radiant or normal pipes inside the cooler, and insulated pipes outside of it) and hook it up to a gas cooler.

It will take 10-20 cycles to cool down to freezing.

The thermo-sensor inside is just wired up to turn the cooler off once it reaches -35c.

Bam. Instant forever food storage, DLC-compatible.

[Cyrus]

Another thing to add/improve on that design is a couple of metal tiles that the gas pipes also run though (push the bottom insulation row down one and add in a row of metal tiles as the floor)

Will take a little longer to get stable, but the metal tiles will take the chill much faster than a plain CO2 pit, and help maintain them it with the thermal mass of the tiles.

Here is my version. but does use a liquid lock and accessible from the side. It also stores everything in chlorine gas ( placed there by some bleach stone)I also have a tank of Hydrogen to use as a thermal buffer for the Regulator to keep temperatures more even without it cycling on/off frequently. (added mass of metal also really helps there)

Its pretty overkill, and can be made much more compact/simpler but was my 'first' attempt of a full chill box after that patch hit. (screens pulled from an older map as my current one is broken due to mods)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2528334766

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2528336905

[Zuz]

Originally posted by Cyrus:

...
Here is my version. but does use a liquid lock and accessible from the side. It also stores everything in chlorine gas ( placed there by some bleach stone)I also have a tank of Hydrogen to use as a thermal buffer for the Regulator to keep temperatures more even without it cycling on/off frequently. (added mass of metal also really helps there)

Its pretty overkill, and can be made much more compact/simpler but was my 'first' attempt of a full chill box after that patch hit. (screens pulled from an older map as my current one is broken due to mods)

The problem with your designs is that they're difficult to build in the early game. My design can be simplified down to, "build a box and put some pipes in it." Then just let it naturally fill with CO2 from your air-wasting-flesh-goblins.

[Cyrus]

Originally posted by Zorb:

Originally posted by Cyrus:

...
Here is my version. but does use a liquid lock and accessible from the side. It also stores everything in chlorine gas ( placed there by some bleach stone)I also have a tank of Hydrogen to use as a thermal buffer for the Regulator to keep temperatures more even without it cycling on/off frequently. (added mass of metal also really helps there)

Its pretty overkill, and can be made much more compact/simpler but was my 'first' attempt of a full chill box after that patch hit. (screens pulled from an older map as my current one is broken due to mods)

The problem with your designs is that they're difficult to build in the early game. My design can be simplified down to, "build a box and put some pipes in it." Then just let it naturally fill with CO2 from your air-wasting-flesh-goblins.

Yours is a simpler design (never debated that) just showing what an 'different' one could look like. however, mine is using basically the same exact tech, apart form rails - which are not much higher in the tech trees compared to whats already there.

There are a lot of solutions to this 'problem' and am glad for this change as simply dropping food into CO2, or railing it into a corner lock vaccum was just too easy.

Early game fridges in a CO2 pit work more than well enough until you can tech up a little bit to create a chill room.

[FalconerHG]

I don't think it's that much simpler, and a lower-tech version of that would not be difficult to make. Cyrus' is more robust and of course having a liquid lock there is a good addition.

[bwhitejr]

Originally posted by Zorb:

Originally posted by ⎛ Alucard ⎞ ✟:

They gonna apply some of the Spaced Out! changes including the food storage one to the base game even for those who don't own dlc.

Guess i'll enjoy it while it lasts :P

I have a very simple solution that works just like vanilla, but takes a pinch of power to run. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2510643933

I'm gonna play with this. I ran a gas pipe up to the near surface in a new map, to just run a cooling gas loop through the base early on, which works really well with the sub-zero temps near the surface. Polluted oxygen worked until I could fill it with hydrogen (best gas for shifting temps). You could run insulted pipes up to the top of the base, run radiant pipes up top, then back, with hydrogen, and cool that room too. No power needed as long as the gas pipes have a "direction" from a bridge somewhere in the line. Be cool to see if it gets cold enough to freeze food. With the freezing point of hydrogen so low, less risk of frozen pipes. Gonna try it!

New players - You can cool with water pipes the same way, early on - run pipes to a cold biome or near the surface, and just circulate it with a bridge giving it a direction to flow in. Pee water has a better heat capacity, so use that. It'll melt that part of the cold biome eventually, but it works great until you can get more elaborate solutions running to shift temps.