Electrolyzer design with AETN usage

[Maniac]

Im currently running low on power and want to build a electrolyzer setud to generate hydrogen and i want to use the AETN to cool the gases

anyone got a good design for that?

[cswiger]

"running low on power" means you need to build more generators.

Building a SPOM with integrated cooling could look like this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2600723052
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2600723296

(You can use an AETN instead of the Thermo Regulators I have for cooling instead.)

[Crim]

Originally posted by cswiger:

"running low on power" means you need to build more generators.

Building a SPOM with integrated cooling could look like this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2600723052
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2600723296

(You can use an AETN instead of the Thermo Regulators I have for cooling instead.)

What's with such a busy design

Why not just put a single gas pump at the top of an umbrella structure near the top of your base.
A basic filter for little accidents, and you're good.

As far as the AETN goes...

After you have whatever collector, just box the AETN, pump the Hydrogen into it, and put the pipe straight past the entry point, so that excess keeps going, then vent it into the boxed AETN room.

Feel free to throw in a little Shutoff Filter for the Vent and have the excess Hydro go into an HGen.

Then for the actual base cooling, you run unrelated pipes in the H-AETN box, probably set this up first, or setup a waterlock

[cswiger]

I use a double-bridge off of the top gas pump as a free packet stacker, which compresses the usual 4 small packets of H into 3 packets and saves a bit of power when going through the Gas Element Sensor and Gas Shutoff.

After that, well, you have to route the Hydrogen line through the hotbox to pickup the heat, and you have to route both Oxygen lines to and from the Thermo Regulators. One could make a more simple design, but it would use more space.

[Angpaur]

Originally posted by cswiger:

I use a double-bridge off of the top gas pump as a free packet stacker, which compresses the usual 4 small packets of H into 3 packets and saves a bit of power when going through the Gas Element Sensor and Gas Shutoff.

This is such an insignificant power reduction. If you want to reduce that shut off power cost then set it to detect oxygen - it will cost you only in the beginning, when spom is priming. After that it will be zero cost as there will be only hydrogen in that pipe.

But if you really want to reduce power cost then you shouldn't be using thermo regulator at all, especially running oxygen in it. If you really insist on the regulator then at least use it in efficient way and run hydrogen in it, as it will save you 2.4x power costs.

@Maniac below is a SPOM design I just created and tested. It includes AETN and some additional cooling. I used regulator to present how it should be done properly, but to save up to 3.5x times more power you should use aquatuner instead.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2601045029

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2601045060

Water enters electrolyzers at 95C and oxygen finally exits at ~21C
After 22 cycles the regulator stablizied at 153C and hydrogen generators at 160C.
You need to use steel for radiant pipes, regulator and generators.

Here is a save file if you want to test it yourself. Just turn on switch above water source and let it run for some time. It will fully prime itself. You can also try to set lower atmo sensor to 500g so you get more uptime for the electrolyzers.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MYHcGShAIUNY5f0KwqaecnvPEgBU2eEw/view?usp=sharing

[cswiger]

Originally posted by Angpaur:

Originally posted by cswiger:

I use a double-bridge off of the top gas pump as a free packet stacker, which compresses the usual 4 small packets of H into 3 packets and saves a bit of power when going through the Gas Element Sensor and Gas Shutoff.

This is such an insignificant power reduction. If you want to reduce that shut off power cost then set it to detect oxygen - it will cost you only in the beginning, when spom is priming. After that it will be zero cost as there will be only hydrogen in that pipe.

A double-bridge is free, although you are right that the benefit is minor.

My SPOM was built at the bottom of my base, so it started in CO2. Filtering for Hydrogen is always safe; filtering for Oxygen is safe only if you prime the SPOM to only have two types of gas inside. Self-priming designs don't matter in sandbox mode, but I prefer them when playing an actual game.

But if you really want to reduce power cost then you shouldn't be using thermo regulator at all, especially running oxygen in it. If you really insist on the regulator then at least use it in efficient way and run hydrogen in it, as it will save you 2.4x power costs.

This is a valid criticism of the design. What I had works well enough to output ~25 C Oxygen, but it is not a power-efficient form of cooling. The efficient way to cool down a base is an Aquatuner design using liquids for heat transport, but we already are in agreement on that point.

However, I will criticize your design for not having the Hydrogen Generators in a Power Plant room. You'd get 50% more power via Engie's tuneup. For that matter, if you're going to run them above 125 C, you might as well add a Steam Turbine and get some extra power from the available heat.

[Angpaur]

When playing an actual game I build electrolyzer in vacuum conditions. It is absolutely power free to create large vacuum areas.

Also this design was supposed to be only expansion of yours with added AETN.

I use completely different electrolyzer setup and I do not cool the oxygen at all - I send it hot to my base since there are cooling loops, which maintain nice ~25C temperature inside.

And yes, I keep most of heat generating machinery in steam filled room to make some additional use of all that heat.

[cswiger]

Originally posted by Angpaur:

When playing an actual game I build electrolyzer in vacuum conditions. It is absolutely power free to create large vacuum areas.

It strikes me as a gimmick to create a water lock and then dig out a vacuum behind it.

Also this design was supposed to be only expansion of yours with added AETN.

I use completely different electrolyzer setup and I do not cool the oxygen at all - I send it hot to my base since there are cooling loops, which maintain nice ~25C temperature inside.

9 times out of 10, I don't try to cool the oxygen either.

No point if an oxy line is going to a bunch of Atmo Suit Docks or an Oxylite Refinery; and not much point if an oxy line is going to the base if there is a liquid cooling loop to provide cooling instead.

And yes, I keep most of heat generating machinery in steam filled room to make some additional use of all that heat.

Fair enough.

[caseyas435943]

Originally posted by Talamare:

Originally posted by cswiger:

"running low on power" means you need to build more generators.

Building a SPOM with integrated cooling could look like this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2600723052
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2600723296

(You can use an AETN instead of the Thermo Regulators I have for cooling instead.)

What's with such a busy design

Why not just put a single gas pump at the top of an umbrella structure near the top of your base.
A basic filter for little accidents, and you're good.

As far as the AETN goes...

After you have whatever collector, just box the AETN, pump the Hydrogen into it, and put the pipe straight past the entry point, so that excess keeps going, then vent it into the boxed AETN room.

Feel free to throw in a little Shutoff Filter for the Vent and have the excess Hydro go into an HGen.

Then for the actual base cooling, you run unrelated pipes in the H-AETN box, probably set this up first, or setup a waterlock

Build the SPOM right you don't need a filter of any kind in them. The gases stay in the right places. It's just 120W of wasted power. I guess if a line it getting plugged up ok I guess. But if that's happening you have something else wrong that needs fixing. Adding a filter isn't the fix it's masking a problem in design.

The AETN. I'd probably put a temp senor on it. So when it's X cold it turns off. No need to run it 24/7 if you don't have to. And with you SPOM it can easily keep that much air cool without running non-stop. AETN starting have big troubles cool air when it's over 2kg of supply.

[Shame]

I do my electrolyzer setups completely differently, but I noticed @cswiger and @Angpaur you have a regular vent feeding hydrogen into the thermo regulator room. One of you actually incorporates AETN in your design, the other one doesn't. With AETN alone I think it should work fine, but what about the regulator?

If it heats up surrounding hydrogen it will eventually overheat the area, itself and/or melt itself. The hydrogen isn't pumped out with fresh cooler hydrogen from electrolyzer setup being fed back in, so how is the regulator supposed to be cooled in these designs?

[Angpaur]

Try my save file and you can see it live. It is cooled down by electrolyzers hydrogen output, even if the temperature is 95C of that hydrogen. I mentioned that both regulator and generators temperatures stabilize at some point.

[Shame]

Originally posted by Angpaur:

Try my save file and you can see it live. It is cooled down by electrolyzers hydrogen output, even if the temperature is 95C of that hydrogen. I mentioned that both regulator and generators temperatures stabilize at some point.

I understand the stabilisation principle just fine, that's how it works with slush geysers and many other builds where heat/mass is deleted and new mass with cooler temperatures is added in as far back as geysers.

Looks like for some reason I just didn't notice the radiant pipes with the newly piped hydrogen passing through the hydrogen-filled thermal regulator hot box for either build, so it's all good, my bad.

[cswiger]

Originally posted by caseyas435943:

Build the SPOM right you don't need a filter of any kind in them. The gases stay in the right places.

Once primed, many SPOM designs remain stable and do not need a filter. Some designs handle having their output lines being blocked better than others, however.

It's just 120W of wasted power. I guess if a line it getting plugged up ok I guess.

A Gas Shutoff uses 10W, not 120W.

The total power consumption is 240 W for the upper pump to activate for one tick, plus 30 W for three gas packets. (Without the packet stuffer, it would total 280 W vs 270 W.)

But if that's happening you have something else wrong that needs fixing. Adding a filter isn't the fix it's masking a problem in design.

You can use the layout I showed without a filter, if you prime it first.
I still like having one in place as a failsafe and to make the design self-priming.

Originally posted by Shame:

I do my electrolyzer setups completely differently, but I noticed @cswiger and @Angpaur you have a regular vent feeding hydrogen into the thermo regulator room.

That fills up the hotbox room containing the Thermo Regulators with H, so heat moves more rapidly. You've followed up to note the radiant pipe used on the H line-- which draws away the heat-- since the H is going to Hydrogen generators (and the AETN), and will be consumed.

I'd probably use a temp-controlled door surrounded by metal tiles to control the cooling from the AETN via a pond of liquid, and have the oxy lines in radiant gas pipes move through the pond to cool down.

An AETN can cool many oxy lines: perhaps over 4, depending on how much cooling they need. So maybe consider cooling a pair of oxy lines and have a liquid cooling loop as well to better use the AETN's cooling fully.

[Angpaur]

AETN will cool down full 4 lines of oxygen by only 20C each.

[Maniac]

for now it looks like this.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2601444524
Any suggestions?
im seems to be working for now at least

[Maniac]

but it doesnt seem to solve my energy problem.
Its just enough to keep it running but nothing leftover for the base.
Do i need more and void the oxygen?