Hamster Wheels

[N.KagnitO)))]

Hello, I'm new to the game (only about 60 hours in) and I have some questions about the basic generator:
- Is it possible to run an entire base with only hamster wheels? There's even an achievement for it, but I think that's just for zany points. Would it actually work?
- What kind of dupes would be required for this? Tinkering focused dupes?
- How many dupes would I generally need for this to work as I get to cycle 100?
- And lastly, can the hamster wheel be "tuned up"? It would be pretty funny to see that.

[Andrewbh2003]

eh you could probably get away with it till mid-game but around cycle 70+ your power requirements increase drastically to a point where its either too expensive or too ineficient to be able to do so

[N.KagnitO)))]

It would probably be a very silly lack of balance if the game would let me get away with this strategy for too long. But if I can stop wasting coal as I stumble my way into building a hatch farm, then I guess it's worth it.

[fractalgem]

My big base on terra is fundamentally powered by hamster wheels, though I do reclaim power from electrolyzing water-it's either that or get rid of the hydrogen by venting it directly into space. I believe I have about...5 hamster wheels in a base of 16 duplicates? But a lot of that power is going into power hungry, heat-moving aqua tuners. If not for needing those, I could probably get by with 5 hamster wheels and venting the hydrogen into space, but I'm also using a mod that lets you pipe gas outputs directly...




My 6 duplicate base on oasis has 2 hamsterwheels, so it seems like having one hamsterwheel for every 3 duplicates is about what you'll need, though if you've invested heavily in auto loaders you might need more (but that'll free up more dupe power than it consumes so it's a worthwhile tradeoff...)

- How many dupes would I generally need for this to work as I get to cycle 100?

Well i'm on cycle 50 on oasis and I...don't think I've even RESEARCHED other power options yet, partly becuase I've been so busy scrambling to carve out the base, insulate it, carve tunnels to the precious swamp and temperate biomes on the very edge of the map, harvest algae from them and haul it allll the way back to base...and then desperately try to make sure my base stays cool enough for the oxyfern (which is probably 1/3rd of my o2 generation) and mealwood.



If I can make it to cycle 50 on oasis without setting up even coal or wood power, you should
be able to get to cycle 100 with just hamsterwheels, especially if you go with a low dupecount build. Quick tip: the wild sleet wheat on my starting world is enough to feed about 10 duplicants.

[N.KagnitO)))]

Originally posted by fractalgem:

My big base on terra is fundamentally powered by hamster wheels, though I do reclaim power from electrolyzing water-it's either that or get rid of the hydrogen by venting it directly into space. I believe I have about...5 hamster wheels in a base of 16 duplicates? But a lot of that power is going into power hungry, heat-moving aqua tuners. If not for needing those, I could probably get by with 5 hamster wheels and venting the hydrogen into space, but I'm also using a mod that lets you pipe gas outputs directly...




My 6 duplicate bas has 2 hamsterwheels, so it seems like having one hamsterwheel for every 3 duplicates is about what you'll need, though if you've invested heavily in auto loaders you might need more (but that'll free up more dupe power than it consumes so it's a worthwhile tradeoff...)

- How many dupes would I generally need for this to work as I get to cycle 100?

Well i'm on cycle 50 on oasis and I...don't think I've even RESEARCHED other power options yet, partly becuase I've been so busy scrambling to carve out the base, insulate it, carve tunnels to the precious swamp and temperate biomes on the very edge of the map, harvest algae from them and haul it allll the way back to base...and then desperately try to make sure my base stays cool enough for the oxyfern (which is probably 1/3rd of my o2 generation) and mealwood.



If I can make it to cycle 50 on oasis without setting up even coal or wood power, you should
be able to get to cycle 100 with just hamsterwheels.

One last question: Could I do all this on Rime? Many people complain about heat, so I would like to see how I could make it work over there.

[L37]

Originally posted by fractalgem:

...but I'm also using a mod that lets you pipe gas outputs directly...

That explains everything. For example with oxygen production, apart from open setups, like 90% of power is used for pumps and filters. As much as i would like more piped outputs game is balanced around incredibly power hungry pumps and removing the need for them breaks balance entirely.

[Jarcionek]

Originally posted by L37:

Originally posted by fractalgem:

...but I'm also using a mod that lets you pipe gas outputs directly...

That explains everything. For example with oxygen production, apart from open setups, like 90% of power is used for pumps and filters. As much as i would like more piped outputs game is balanced around incredibly power hungry pumps and removing the need for them breaks balance entirely.

You can reduce energy usage by using automation and automated gas shut-off rather than gas filter. The latter consumes 120W non stop, the former consumes 10W only for a second when the pipe content changes.

This gives one electrolyzer 120W, 2 gas pumps 240W each and 2 (or 4 for safety) gas shut offs, giving the energy need of 600-640W. This produces 112g/s of hydrogen which is enough to have hydrogen pump working full time, giving 800W, and there is still 12g/s hydrogen left.

[fractalgem]

Rime would probably make it easier for the mid-late game stretch, yeah, though the early game might be tricky-you may want to spend 10-20 cycles insulating the base there as well, because from what I've heard it's just SOOO cold. Electrolysis will likely be your friend BECAUSE it can create so much heat for so little power- pump in near freezing water, get nice hot gas!

[fractalgem]

Originally posted by L37:

Originally posted by fractalgem:

...but I'm also using a mod that lets you pipe gas outputs directly...

That explains everything. For example with oxygen production, apart from open setups, like 90% of power is used for pumps and filters. As much as i would like more piped outputs game is balanced around incredibly power hungry pumps and removing the need for them breaks balance entirely.

I was managing with hamster power and hydrogen power before I added the mod, and my pumps weren't even set up very efficiently, so I can confidently say its possible without if you don't have to worry so much about cooling.

[L37]

Originally posted by Jarcionek:

You can reduce energy usage by using automation and automated gas shut-off rather than gas filter. The latter consumes 120W non stop, the former consumes 10W only for a second when the pipe content changes.

This gives one electrolyzer 120W, 2 gas pumps 240W each and 2 (or 4 for safety) gas shut offs, giving the energy need of 600-640W. This produces 112g/s of hydrogen which is enough to have hydrogen pump working full time, giving 800W, and there is still 12g/s hydrogen left.

I know that, yes. It has its issues though, and electrolyzer will still periodically overpressure leading to reduced efficiency. It is also more high-tech, requires refined metals and knewledge how to setup.

With moded piped otput it is 120W for electrolyzer and 800W from generator, even a bit more. That's not ubalanced at all...

I did not experiment with mods, but even using old good overpressure exploit to filter gases and eliminate the need for pumping oxygen provides enough free power up to like ~100-150 cycles at least.

Originally posted by fractalgem:

I was managing with hamster power and hydrogen power before I added the mod, and my pumps weren't even set up very efficiently, so I can confidently say its possible without if you don't have to worry so much about cooling.

It is possible stock, no doubt. It will just be wastly different experience...
Also, dont get me wrong, i do not think using such mods is wrong or anything. Everyone plays as he likes. It is just that this will vastly differ from stock experience and advice given based on it will, most likely, be wrong for stock.