'Automation' update a step in the wrong direction

[Vandragorax]

I hate to say this but, I really think you went in the wrong direction with this so called 'automation' update.

I see what you were going for, you're programmers and you went down the Minecraft route with regards to circuitry providing users the option for complex systems.

However I don't really see what this adds to the game besides a lot of frustration for the majority of players who will barely even touch this kind of system, it's a very inaccessible feature.


What I feel would have been a much wiser move would be to go down the route of something like Factorio. INDUSTRIAL style automation, not COMPUTING style automation. Providing conveyors, automated mining drones, the ability to link up machines that would feed into other machines for end products to save the duplicants having to do it.

Real tangible things that you can animate in a cool way, the players will enjoy watching and using, and it ultimately helps streamline the game as the player includes more of them in their underground base.

This electronics style automation doesn't feel like it fits with this game at all, but industrial automation would have been a whole lot better thematically and game play wise imo.

[custume]

+1

And, dont forget that some process need some automation or it will take dup time.
Users dont have to use it, but make things lot faster.

Some examples for logic sys :

Air process and control
Air pressure and doors control
Water dam control system
Water cooling control
Water pump control
electric system control
automating air control (removal of bad gas)

Best regards to all

[GD]

Well most of your scenarios were possible before without layout a 2nd circuit for that. And I think some complain because the new update makes exisiting things not work anymore and (a little) more complicated than before.

Air process and control -- Possible before
Air pressure and doors control -- Air Yes, Doors No
Water dam control system -- Possible before
Water cooling control -- Possible before
Water pump control -- Possible before
electric system control - New
automating air control (removal of bad gas) -- Possible before

AND was possible
OR was possible
NOT as well via inversing sensors

Simple switch was also possible

This covers 80% of the common usage scenarios. Don't misunderstand my here. I'm happy there are additional possibilities now, especially the automated outlets, door, dup access and the weight sensor.

If I had to make a decison on that I would have said: The new stuff is nice and will make new things possible, but the old way via Power on/off should continue functioning and why not. The same sensors placed on a power-wire could still interrupt the power flow for controling things ... why the hell not. Even if a sensor would be placed on both networks at the same time, it could work on both networks.

Everyone starts simple and if that's not enough anymore, starts looking for better things and voilá now there you have it: Automation Stuff. Only the forced usage is feeling a little wrong here.

[custume]

Originally posted by GD:

Well most of your scenarios were possible before without layout a 2nd circuit for that. And I think some complain because the new update makes exisiting things not work anymore and (a little) more complicated than before.

Air process and control -- Possible before
Air pressure and doors control -- Air Yes, Doors No
Water dam control system -- Possible before
Water cooling control -- Possible before
Water pump control -- Possible before
electric system control - New
automating air control (removal of bad gas) -- Possible before

Air process and control -- Possible before / (true just takes to long to build)
Air pressure and doors control -- Air Yes, Doors No / true

Water dam control system -- Possible before / ??? how do you open doors to alow the water to flow without a dup, some one needs to open something

Water cooling control -- Possible before / (true just takes to long to build)
Water pump control -- Possible before / true

electric system control - New
automating air control (removal of bad gas) -- Possible before / more or less true

You can now open doors on the top to alow gas to go to a area to process, also you can create smart gas tanks.

But is true, is just new ways to make things, players before had to create mecanical stuff and now we can do digital heheheheh

Originally posted by GD:

If I had to make a decison on that I would have said: The new stuff is nice and will make new things possible, but the old way via Power on/off should continue functioning and why not.

True, but the thing that bother me is how a door opens without power or how the logic system works without power.

Just try it, set up a door and dont give it power just connect a switch and bingo it works.

Best regards

[Mechanoid]

Tell me what's easier:
Add 20 new objects and then add a feature that impacts each one differently, if at all.
or
Add a feature first and then add in objects with that feature in mind at the time it's made.

Any development process is about reducing wasted time and establishing the root systems before the fancy things. Automation may not be "doing" very much right now but the inclusion of it in the design process will save the developers several headaches later on when they do decide to implement more industrial/dupe-free machinery types.

Edit - for example, not having to re-write any new sensors to be using the signal wire instead of the power wires. it's just "a new sensor? onto the signal wire!" instead of a few months from now when they add in 5 more types and then say "oh no, we get to re-write and debug ALL the sensor objects because of this new automation feature"

[Sola]

Your opinion is noted. The game may not be for you.

I had to consider that when they changed the frz.pnt. of oil -40C.

I'll be disappointed if I expect them to make the game my way.

*I* find factorio tedious and boring. Not everyone agrees.

[Amiths]

I just love when people want to remove cool features for everyone because they dont have the mental capabilities to learn how to use them. If you can't learn, just dont use it, simple as that. Dont ruin for everyone else because you can't learn 4 logic gates.

Now i agree with the industrial system, would be awesome to use it WITH the automotation (or don't if you dont have 20 min to learn how XOR, AND, OR and NOT works)

[Vandragorax]

@Amiths resorting to personal attacks and accusing me of things you just made up?

I am not asking for "cool features" to be removed, I acknowledge that some people enjoy doing logic gate type stuff, and I'm a programmer as my day job so I know perfectly well how logic functions work thank you. I was simply putting out my opinion that this doesn't seem to enhance the game, or fit with the direction I thought the game was going in. That has been backed up by those above showing how these things were all possible before, only now they might be a little more refined to set up.

@Sol - maybe you're right, maybe this game isn't for me anymore. I do enjoy Factorio a lot, and I did enjoy ONI until I kinda ran out of stuff to do, which is expected during early access.

However I'm just concerned that there doesn't seem to be a strong focus on real gameplay devices, and instead it's just adding random things into a sandbox experiment. I mean sure they can add some sort of end-game "win" scenario arbitrarily at some point later, but I'd much rather see direction that actually means something other than just adding a feature because it's "cool". There needs to be other compelling gameplay reasons.

I felt a similar feeling during Don't Starve development and it turned out that the game ended up in a bit of a weird place with lots of 'things' jumbled together that weren't really important to the overall game progression. And the 'end game' seemed rather tacked on at the end.

It just seems like Klei perhaps rely too heavily on "design by committee" for their games and adding a feature like this logic 'automation' stuff seems a bit misguided at this point in development. I realise they have got to do something, and perhaps other larger features seem too daunting, or maybe their 4 week release cycle is restricting them pushing out larger features.

I guess this is just me venting my frustration at the way I see the game going and I hope that it won't end up like Don't Starve where it's just a bunch of jumbled features glued together, turning the final product into something where there's too much going on at once, the game mechanics get too diluted and convoluted, and the whole thing feels like it didn't really have enough direction.

[Skylight]

Totally agree with the OP.

I am a full time programmer myself and this update didn't motivate me enough to start a new colony.

I think automation on its own is okay and will find some appeal across heavy tinkerers, however this kind of system should have been added after everything else, when game is self sufficient to keep people playing longer in the end game. It would just bring QoL to enhance already big enough world.

When Factorio devs added similar functionality (combinators), it was almost at the end of their EA and the game had so much more stuff it could do.

Personally, I think devs should be focusing on improving the map and introducing new core gameplay mechanics everyone would enjoy.

[Ownizuka]

I mostly agree with a caveat that it doesn't really add anything to the game in its *current* state.

However, that is very often the case with games in development. The way I see it, this update was simply a foundation for future content; a necessary stepping stone so they can add more features down the road that *do* add value to the gameplay.

This is how game development goes. They can't finish the game in a single update; they have to build it piece by piece.

So, while I do agree that this update didn't add a whole lot in terms of expanding current available content, it did increase the foundation for them to be able to add more in the future. And, quite frankly, the way they did it is rather brilliant as it doesn't break the game like many stepping stone updates often do in other games. The game still functions and can be played (almost) the exact same way as it could before. This is actually quite rare to see in alpha games.

I don't see how this update "breaks" anything as some are claiming. I have not experienced that at all. It's basically an unfinished feature at this point that can either be experimented with or ignored based on the player's preference.

With this update, I see amazing potential for future content. To me, that's what counts.

So, overall, I think it's a great addition given the new possibilities it affords.

[High Man]

You guys. First, this automation HAD to come early on in the game, why ? Cause it has a learning curve to it. Some might think this is complex to work with, but as soon you have just a little experience with it, you will see it's actually qutie simple.

It's like saying any language or math is complex, everything is complex from a ignorant standpoint.

I think I'm at my 10'th colony past day 100, every time with the same reason: I've learned so much that if I want to really facilitate it i would have to tear down the whole base... so rather start new, since it's mostly the same.

Personally i love the logic gates, they open up for insane inventions, like airlock compressors capable of compressing air far beyond the 20kg limit of high-pressure vents. My last colony had a airlock compressor with 4 tiles of Co2 at the end.. all holding more then 200kg of Co2.

SR Latches (combination of OR and NOR gates) making controlling greenhouses and water res refilling not only a breeze, but much more "organic".


I think they should rework the energy grid system, at the momment random cables get overloaded as soon as the main circuit is overloaded. <--- this aint realistic or logical in any way.

But that is OT and has nothing to do with automation.

Anyway i love the update and i think those who "don't like it" should try and use a bit more time with it, google "sr latches oxygen" and you will find some chick named Lucy who has some great tutorials on logic gates IN oxygen not included. <--- she made it MUCH more easy for me to understand AND value this update!

[AquaX]

Best way to get a better understanding of the logic system is debug. Because of the level of understanding is different from the game, loads of tests are require. This from my understanding and I have yet to use debug in the other updates until now.

[Xarian]

And I think you, the OP, are completely and utterly wrong. This update is my favorite so far.

Automated doors, power systems, and gas pumps are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ amazing.

[Umbras Memoria]

Originally posted by Elevrai:

"autistic experimental sandbox"

I love how gamers don't like something/one these days and it's automatically branded 'autistic'.
Sad to think people who have a legitimate disorder are being made fun of by simple minded kids who don't even know what terminology they use.

[High Man]

Originally posted by Umbras Memoria:

Sad to think people who have a legitimate disorder are being made fun of by simple minded kids who don't even know what terminology they use. :vswyatt:

It aint a disorder, it's a diffrence in brain development, one that favors math "power" over social "power". Most, if not all, influential inventors are either confirmd autists or suspected autists (kinda hard to "diagnose" Einstein for example)

Automation update was a little complex, since it took some understanding, studiyng and trial and error to fully understand.... most average people just don't have the mental strength to learn things that seem difficult at first... it's a avarage human fault, not a autist fault. ANY autist who plays this game is most likely loving this expansion... i know i am :P

[Denny Crane]

I kinda agree with OP
this patch literally just expand/revised the old existing mechanic and thing.

it not really adding any new thing you still explore the plante fill with the same thing as the previous version the same type of gas,tiles,biome it literally change nothing.

it just like the previous version is the 3 way junction but with the new patch the make it to intersection which mean 1 more road to go but that new road have the same scenary as other road.

to expand is good but for early access game adding new thing as a foundation to expand "later" is better, at least IMO