Electricity wires pissed me off did they fix it?

[dred]

Running electric wires made no sense in that the physics were wrong.

Meaning, anyplace on the line would burn out even though that length had low electrical current.

The person who created wires for the game does not understand how wires and current work so its all wrong.

Have they updated this or is it the same deal where anyplace on the electrical line can break if there is too much current, even if its a wire branching off powering a low wattage device.

[kingjames488]

no, and there's no indication it will ever be changed.

[fluxtorrent]

oh L37... If you still don't understand all I can recommend is that you actually DO it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLTkkXajDVc

An outlet draws power from the circuit but does not ADD the device to it. This is called a parralel circuit, where as your household wiring is all in series. Since all wiring in the game is series you HAVE to treat it like series wiring. Period.

[Hedning]

The reason you need transformers irl is to protect low resistance devices from having too high current put through them since I=U/R.

irl if you had a high resistance device you could use a smaller wire for that than you would your other devices in parallel.

In oni there is no current, no wattage and no resistance, there is only power. When I was new I assumed the power would act like current and follow KCL. I think that's pretty intuitive, however that's not how it works.

[L37]

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

oh L37... If you still don't understand all I can recommend is that you actually DO it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLTkkXajDVc

An outlet draws power from the circuit but does not ADD the device to it. This is called a parralel circuit, where as your household wiring is all in series. Since all wiring in the game is series you HAVE to treat it like series wiring. Period.

If you assume that all connections in ONI are serial it will be even more unrealistic and make no sense at all. Serial connection is never used apart from within certain devices which are specifically designed to work like this. Typical house electrical system looks more like a tree, but still ultimately eveything is conected paralelly to initial power source, which probably is substation (where transformer is used to reduce voltage) in this case. And of course the connection i was talking about would be paralell, not because serial connection will damage wire (which it will not, because current will still be limited by lamp's resistance), but because if i connect it serially everything else on circuit will stop working (will depend a lot on other devices, if you connect like 5kW heater serially with 25W lamp, lamp will work but heater will not and you can still use thin wire, because current is still limited by lamp. You can check corresponding formulas if you want to understand why.).
Also, with serial connection, removing or disabling single device should disable all circuit, which does not happen in ONI...

[fluxtorrent]

facepalm...

So basically you don't understand a thing AND cant read.

Yes, outlets are run parallel, thats the POINT. You connect something directly to the cable (as per the video and how you can OBVIOUSLY see the conduits in oni and its a series. Ergo yes it overloads...

Complaining that the game is running the wire in series is an entirely different thread. go make that and complain if you want.


TLDR if you connect things in series and then run too much power through it, you get heat, see video exhibit above. Do it yourself and see if you still cant grasp it. Connecting one set of wires directly to another set of wires does not a parallel circuit make.

[L37]

So, what is different between outlet and direct wire connection?

And second qestion, when there is given voltage and given resistance (25w incandescent lamp designed for specific voltage will have given resistence, yes) the current is basically fixed (Ohm's law). So how do you think "overload" will happen?

[fluxtorrent]

... If you need to ask that I suggest you don't have anything more to do with wires than plugging things in. You are not smart enough.

As for your second, irrelevant to the conversatyion at hand since there are no 25w lamps in ONI. You need to do your own homework for your lamp I'm not doing it for you.

[L37]

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

... If you need to ask that I suggest you don't have anything more to do with wires than plugging things in. You are not smart enough.

As for your second, irrelevant to the conversatyion at hand since there are no 25w lamps in ONI. You need to do your own homework for your lamp I'm not doing it for you.

Yep, about what i expected.
Typical thing to do once you do not know the answer is to brag about how smart you are and how trivial this thing is and how everyone and his dog knows it. You've been trying to pull this trick whole time.
The fact is though, answers to both those questions are:

- None
- "overload" will not happen.

And if you want to to discuss something further, you will need some actual arguments, instead of whole "i am smart!" thing.

[fluxtorrent]

Irony, thy name huh.

How about you demonstrate your brilliance. does the game act like wires are connected in series or parallel?

[Hedning]

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

you can OBVIOUSLY see the conduits in oni and its a series.

No, series and parallel does not apply to oni. Even if it did then oni would be parellel because the more things you add in a series the less current you will draw, preventing overload. In oni obviously it is the complete other way around, so if anything oni connections are parallel.

[fluxtorrent]

Escrito originalmente por Hedning:

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

you can OBVIOUSLY see the conduits in oni and its a series.

No, series and parallel does not apply to oni. Even if it did then oni would be parellel because the more things you add in a series the less current you will draw, preventing overload. In oni obviously it is the complete other way around, so if anything oni connections are parallel.

Except it's not. I'm not talking about connected devices. I'm talking about the WIRES. They act like they are run in series. Every device CONNECTS with an "outlet" which could just as easily allow for a parallel circuit off the mainbus series. Combination circuits arent exactly a hard concept to grasp here. Hell they are one of the most common things used period.

I'm done in this thread regardless but I'll leave you with this

Improper Wiring Methods
A qualified and conscientous electrician will always follow the requirements of the NEC to produce a safe and effective electrical system, but the same isn't true of homeowners who often don't know what is safe. Another example from my experience: I once purchased a used hot tub from a homeowner. Upon finding that I was an electrician, he asked me to unwire it from the house and I agreed to help him out there. He had run wire from the hot tub to a dryer outlet just inside, but what appeared to be adequately sized wire turned out to be 14 gauge wire wrapped with many layers of electrical tape. Now, that is at least 3 sizes too small for the hot tub and when I removed the large cover from the dryer outlet it simply crumbled in my hands - completely charred to nothing but tiny bits of plastic just waiting to be disturbed to fall apart. The homeowner looked at it, looked at me, and commented that "I guess that's what causes fires, huh?".

He was right - that's what burns homes down and it was completely unnecessary. If you don't know what is needed to complete a wiring job safely, either find out or hire someone that does know. Electricians have, in most states, completed years of study and work learning how to ply their craft and are usually quite knowledgeable. Hire one if necessary.

https://dengarden.com/home-improvement/What-Causes-Electrical-Fires-in-the-Home
https://www.thespruce.com/common-electrical-mistakes-homeowners-make-1152376

So, go ahead and keep believing that it's safe to use different types of wires, or wires not rated for their load in your circuits if you want. Fortunately we have laws against letting people like you do any real work with electricity in this country at least.

[Hedning]

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

Except it's not. I'm not talking about connected devices. I'm talking about the WIRES. They act like they are run in series. Every device CONNECTS with an "outlet" which could just as easily allow for a parallel circuit off the mainbus series. Combination circuits arent exactly a hard concept to grasp here. Hell they are one of the most common things used period.

I can't make sense of this. What do you mean wires are in series but the loads are parallel? That makes no sense. A wire is just a wire. If you mean to say that in oni the total "current" visits every wire then yes that is how it works, but to make an analogy with "wires in series" is extremely far fetched imo.

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

So, go ahead and keep believing that it's safe to use different types of wires, or wires not rated for their load in your circuits if you want.

Do you know who you are talking to? I never said anything like that.

[L37]

Escrito originalmente por fluxtorrent:

..
https://dengarden.com/home-improvement/What-Causes-Electrical-Fires-in-the-Home
https://www.thespruce.com/common-electrical-mistakes-homeowners-make-1152376

So, go ahead and keep believing that it's safe to use different types of wires, or wires not rated for their load in your circuits if you want. Fortunately we have laws against letting people like you do any real work with electricity in this country at least.

Those quote is totally correct, but then it is talking about different thing - guy used improper wire for specific device he connected. And yes, this is bad, because it will indeed exceed what is wire rated for. What we were talking about here IIRC, is the opposite case - when wire is appropriate for device but different (and specificaly rated for less current) than wire used in circut it is plugged into.
And even more, if this guy did what i was talking about few posts before and added a fuse appropriate for his wire it would have been immediately blown and he would have probably understood that he used inappropriate wire.
As for mixing different wires in single circuit - like it or not but it is done everywhere all the time, each time you plug in some device it almost surely uses wire that differs from those connected to your outlet. Because nobody uses same type of wire for 5kW heater and phone charger or a lamp. And this is one of the reasons why almost any device this days has some kind of fuse built in - to protect specific wire and other component used in this device from overheating/causing a fire in case something breaks and causes short circuit inside the device, regardless of what you plug it into.

[fluxtorrent]

back to "plugging" these wires in again and ignoring that you don't do that in oni. and LOL yeah, use a fuse, the equivalent being a transformer in the game... Sheesh
Lost causes are lost.

[L37]

What happens in ony is obviously nowhere near what happens in reality. But since devices do not depend on each other it mostly looks similar to very simplified parallel connection of all consumers and producers.
Also transformer in ONI is not a fuse. And not a transformer either. It is basically a current limiter of some type, which limits maximum current without completely interrupting the circuit (which fuse will do).
That is if we ignore all the programming-related "packet" stuff which is going on there.

Also, real transformer by itself does not protect from overload/overcurrent. It is used for completely different things. In fact overloaded transformer will fail much, much more spectacularly than just a wire, because there is sort of chain reaction going on in there once certain thermal limits are exceeded. And the fact that most high-power transformers are filled with oil does not help with resulting fire either...