600W generating, completely exploit-free SPOM

[Strygald]

I had an idea last night, maybe it's been done before but i'll share it anyway.

SPOM that generates 600W surplus electricity

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1750455550

Video Notes:
Freshly built SPOM takes a few cycles to "get fully revved up", so the vid covers 5 or 6 cycles.

10 Jumbo batteries are just to give a vizualisation of energy gain, nobody in their right mind would use 10 jumbo batteries in survival - please remember to add +20kj to the Net power gained(to ignore the runoff).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06i_y-jQMoo

How it works

The SPOM box should be built somewhere near the top of your base with nothing obstructing it nearby.. so above a ladder shaft would be a good candidate. It has 3 electrolyzers and 3 gas pumps above them. So that you have full control over water usage I would suggest using a liquid valve to limit flow to the electrolyzers to 1000g/s, this is so 1/3 of the water goes to each electrolyzer and all 3 will have a combined output of 1 electrolyzer running at 100% uptime. The reason there are 3 is simply because you get better gas dispersion and don't end up with the dreaded 'max gas pressure' ruining your efficiency, which is often the case with 1 lone electrolyzer.

Next, there are 3 gas pumps which suck up the hydrogen(and oxygen) and these also help greatly with preventing 'max gas pressure', all other oxygen produced floats down into your base. Wait! you say, how can you generate surplus power with 3 gas pumps going?! Here's the key: we use an automation pulse 'thingymajig'(the thing under the SPOM box) to only allow the pumps to work every couple of seconds, this vastly reduces the amount of power they use. With the correct settings on the automation pulse you can reliably get very near 100% electrolyzer efficiency.

Here are the settings i'm using:
top buffer set to 1s
bottom buffer set to 4s

Learn more about automation pulsing here:

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/83723-useful-automation-gadgets/

The gas pumps suck up both oxygen and hydrogen and send to a custom filtration system(which I wont go into unless someone wants to know), filtered hydrogen gets fed into the generators and filtered oxygen can be sent to far away parts of the base or into exosuit docks, etc..


Results(of the last 5 cycles before I stopped)

Cycle 23
oxygen generated: 539.9kg
net power: 355.8kj

Cycle 24
oxygen generated: 532.8kg
net power: 361.9kj

Cycle 25
oxygen generated: 537.2kg
net power: 382.3kj

Cycle 26
oxygen generated: 525.7kg
net power: 358.1kj

Cycle 27
oxygen generated: 541.7kg
net power: 366.5kj

Average
oxygen generated: 535.46kg/cycle
net power: 364.92kj/cycle

( 364.92 * 1000 ) / 600 = 608

average of 608W surplus power generated per cycle

[Strygald]

Originally posted by KucheKlizma:

So if you're not going to be using the oxygen, why not just make 1 electrolyzer and 2 pumps? Or 1 of each if you don't like being efficient. What's the point of having 3 of each? 600W isn't worth the effort. Might as well just build one coal generator and be over with it.

I saw your comment in the gas filter thread so i'm pretty sure you understand how the automation pulse works, like I said in the original post I have the 3 gas pumps connected to an automation pulse, where the buffers are set to 1 second and 4 seconds, respectively.

So the gas pumps are not running all the time, they are like this:

1 sec on, 1 sec off, 1 sec off, 1 sec off, 1 sec off *repeat*

They are essentially on only 1/5th of the time, having 3 improves moving gas away from the electrolyzers and sucking up hydrogen.

[Strygald]

Originally posted by KucheKlizma:

You obviously haven't tested your own design. Why not test it yourself in survival before you praise it?

I have about 1600 hours in survival and 227 hours in sandbox, I think I can tell whether it's going to work or not in survival...

[Just a dog]

Just saying if you want to showcase the pulsers, why not apply them to a conventional 2 pumps : 1 electrolyzer design and showscase the benefit compared to other designs - people will likely be more impressed. If it ABSOLUTELY has to be a 1:1 ratio or 3 of each - why not explain why?

[Strygald]

Originally posted by KucheKlizma:

Just saying if you want to showcase the pulsers, why not apply them to a conventional 2 pumps : 1 electrolyzer design and showscase the benefit compared to other designs - people will likely be more impressed. If it ABSOLUTELY has to be a 1:1 ratio or 3 of each - why not explain why?

I am not showcasing the pulsers, the goal is to make a design that uses the automation pulse AND layout of 3 gas pumps and 3 electrolyzers to accomplish the same result of using a basic 1 electrolyzer : 2 gas pump design but for much lower energy cost.

edit: also, I did explain why!

Originally posted by Strygald:

It has 3 electrolyzers and 3 gas pumps above them. So that you have full control over water usage I would suggest using a liquid valve to limit flow to the electrolyzers to 1000g/s, this is so 1/3 of the water goes to each electrolyzer and all 3 will have a combined output of 1 electrolyzer running at 100% uptime. The reason there are 3 is simply because you get better gas dispersion and don't end up with the dreaded 'max gas pressure' ruining your efficiency, which is often the case with 1 lone electrolyzer.

Next, there are 3 gas pumps which suck up the hydrogen(and oxygen) and these also help greatly with preventing 'max gas pressure', all other oxygen produced floats down into your base. Wait! you say, how can you generate surplus power with 3 gas pumps going?! Here's the key: we use an automation pulse 'thingymajig'(the thing under the SPOM box) to only allow the pumps to work every couple of seconds, this vastly reduces the amount of power they use. With the correct settings on the automation pulse you can reliably get very near 100% electrolyzer efficiency.

[Just a dog]

Ok you got me there, I gotta admit I didn't catch that. The moment I looked over the numbers of oxygen produced it made sense since it's for 1 electrolyzer and not 3.
It makes much more sense now, really sorry about that.

However I tested the design over here with is pretty efficient when it comes to oxygen production:
https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/97839-scalable-spom-unit/

Proof:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1752376419
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1752376527
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1752376635

And it can produce surplus varying from 300j - 900j depending on how much gas storage it has (a little over 300j if it was near 100% completely dry before the cycle)

Gotta count the net wasted too though - didn't find an easy way to force the generators to use up all the gas without jumbo batteries.

Yours seems to have ~700j actually if you count Net Wasted - are you using jumbo batteries, what's it wasted on?
700 seems a bit too much tbh, I assume part of it may be coming from your Gas storage.

If you pre-fill a bunch of gas storages with hydrogen, in fact it's the storages that are producing the power not the spom (unless hydrogen consumption matches hydrogen production)
Would be nice to do a dry run to see how much it can output without storage and also check what's going on with net wasted.

However I also notice that your power usage is around 200j lower while oxygen production remains the same so you might be onto something as far as min-maxing goes. Can't really replicate without the design though.

[fiziologus]

No need compare 'cоck' guys. This familiar but rare used free oxigen flow scheme. Not very good for base with bad natural (gas flow)l ventilation and for big-space base. Plus scheme is unnecessarily complicated via three lizer-pamp tandem.
Key things.

• Water. Valve set up to 1kg/s or 1/3 needed, and no bridges, only simple T-junction. E.g. left lizer work each 2 sec (flow 500 g/s), other – each 4 sec (flow 250g/s). Some energy bonus via cutting effectiveness.
  
• The automation pulse work as hand-made pressure sensore. Just enable pump at regular intervals. Technicaly possibly set-up it to hydrogen only pimping.
  
• Energy. 600W collect from free oxigen flow (one pump instead two) and cutting work pumps with lizers (sacrifice oxigen production). In other side H2-generator work almost all time, average H2 outpit 112 g/s (112 / 2 + 2 * (112 / 4) )

Good concept for early/mid game (small base, few dup, no need collect hydrogen) or as power plant with oxigen (self) supply in late.

[Just a dog]

I legit thought it's about 3 electrolyzers producing all the time. Should have read more carefully.
The lack of gas pump save A LOT of power and there's a bit of extra coming from accumulated gas storage, but he didn't account for net waste which in the screenshot is identical to net power. So I'm guessing it may be closer to like 500j or 800W realistically if it's hooked up to a smart batteries with automation and some consumers (and even more when it can store up hydrogen)?

[Strygald]

Originally posted by fiziologus:

No need compare 'cоck' guys. This familiar but rare used free oxigen flow scheme. Not very good for base with bad natural (gas flow)l ventilation and for big-space base. Plus scheme is unnecessarily complicated via three lizer-pamp tandem.

Good concept for early/mid game (small base, few dup, no need collect hydrogen) or as power plant with oxigen (self) supply in late.

Well, i'm glad you understand how it works and provided a list of pros and cons.

A balanced comment, thanks

[Strygald]

Originally posted by KucheKlizma:

I legit thought it's about 3 electrolyzers producing all the time. Should have read more carefully.
The lack of gas pump save A LOT of power and there's a bit of extra coming from accumulated gas storage, but he didn't account for net waste which in the screenshot is identical to net power. So I'm guessing it may be closer to like 500j or 800W realistically if it's hooked up to a smart batteries with automation and some consumers (and even more when it can store up hydrogen)?

You're understanding it now

I intentionally let the hydrogen run straight from the pumps, through the filter and directly into the hydrogen generators... there is no storage or smart batteries to turn off the generators.

The reason for that is so I can get accurate readings from the reports to see how much oxygen and hydrogen I produced and how much electricity it cost.

Consider this report:

530.1kg oxygen produced
514.4kj electricity produced

electricity removed:
Liquid pump -13.2kj
Gas Filter -20.6kj
Gas Pump -48.1kj
Electrolyzer -59.7kj

Total cost: 141.6kj

(530.1kg * 1000) / 600 sec = 883.5g/s of oxygen, note the max is 888g/s so very close!

(514.4kj * 1000) / 600 sec = 857.3j/s = 857.3W ; hydrogen gen converts 1g hydrogen into 8W, so 857.3 / 8 = 107.2g/s hydrogen ... this is pretty close to the max of 112g/s

Cost to produce 883.5g/s oxygen and 107.2g/s hydrogen is:

141.6kj or (141.6 * 1000) / 600 = 236W

[Just a dog]

Oh does net waste and net produce overlap? Lmao just scratch everything I said in this thread, i'm drunk. Definitely got some ideas for what to do on my next game though, so thanks and sorry again!

[fiziologus]

@Strygald, report wrong or you miss anothed power source (or one old bug still live).

Close to real testing (link access). If scheme give 600W free energy, all almost charge in one cycle (360KJ or 18 smart-bat). Just watch.
https://youtu.be/75iphj27A8o

[Lifepath [CdE]]

Do your pumps always pump full packets of Hydrogen ? Don't you ever pump O2 with the Hydrogen ?
Because you can very simply make a setup with only one pump for the Hydrogen that only starts when there is enough of it for full packets... It just takes more space.

[Angpaur]

Originally posted by Strygald:

I had an idea last night, maybe it's been done before but i'll share it anyway

Indeed open bottom elecrolyzer builds have beed done before. Can be really good, but you need to know and state clearly its limitations.
I have just a few questions:

What happens when eventually oxygen level, near bottom of your build, rises above 1500g?

Do you ever intend to use atmosuits in your base? If so then doesn't you need additional pump?

Other electrolyzer builds can be used to supply oxygen to exosuit docks, this can't really do this because there are too few oxygen packets pumped by that one pump.

[Magic Is Might]

Originally posted by RogueMasta:

I'm with promethian. Filters are easily replaced by the natural force of gravity and atmo sensors help a lot. This is my set up.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1748347998

Did some math, so this system will produce 537.6 kj total power will use 374.1 kj
net power per day 166.5 kj

i did same system in the past and its very reliable and have no issues with over presure, seems your overcomplikated system not worth building

[Strygald]

Originally posted by Magic Is Might:

Originally posted by RogueMasta:

I'm with promethian. Filters are easily replaced by the natural force of gravity and atmo sensors help a lot. This is my set up.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1748347998

Did some math, so this system will produce 537.6 kj total power will use 374.1 kj
net power per day 166.5 kj

i did same system in the past and its very reliable and have no issues with over presure, seems your overcomplikated system not worth building

Wow, so many naysayers coming out of the woodwork, my system may be a bit more complicated but only costs about 140kj to 150kj instead of 374kj and you don't think it's worth using? ok...