Space setup

[ForwarD]

Breached into surface for a first time yesterday. Built couple of scanners and telescope protected by bunker doors. Now I'm looking for permanent solution of my new space problems.

1). So first of all, can someone post how permanent space setup looks like for him? I found some in the internet, but most of them either not good enough either outdated.

2). My plan is to have robo-miners and sweepers to transfer them into cooling pool. Perfectly would be drop them into 100C water to boil it and pump out steam for my future rocket. Will debris temperature be enough for boiling water pool?

3). Other solution is making whole cooling loop on pwater and cooling sweepers and miners. Do they need tempshift plates behind or they will exchange heat just with radiant pipe behind them?

4). Probably would be better to dumb debris into coolant pool instead and cool everything to -4C instead of 100C? Energy from coolant pool can be transfered via aquatuner into petroleum pool below speam chamber, to use with turbine and have steam excess for rocket engine. That's a lot of energy to spend and I'm not sure if it's really needed. Though I will need to cool space machinery somehow anyway, right? Or there are easier setups?

5). Perfectly would be fit 6-12 solar panels into this setup just to compensate it's own draw. Placing them below mech tiles below miners/sweepers area seems logical.

6). How good are jetpacks? Currently on surface my dupes work just in atmo suits and it's seems good enough. But I will need to pump pertoleum into containers here anyway for future rocket use, so maybe switching to jet suits makes sense?

7). Whole rocket launch complex setup. No idea how it should look like. Can meteors damage rocket? Do I need steel launch table?

8). What's point to have more then 2 space scanners if even 2 provide 67s safety window and closing bunker doors takes 45s?

9). Do power and automation wires participate in heat exhange? Would I need to cool down wires behind bunker doors and such?

Thanks in advance.

[L37]

Mine looks like this currently:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835634719
there is more of the same (3 more scanners) to the right.
I do nothing about debris, they just accumulate there and dupes can use them if they are needed for something.
This is 2x more miners then minimally needed, but since they are made out of regular metals they are cheap, and more means faster and less downtime for solar panels.
Solar panels... here they are not built yet, but they can be built below all covered area, mesh tiles and all the buildings do not interfere with light.
Heat exchange does not happen in vacuum, so i vent 20g/s oxygen through each vent near robo-miners only during storms to cool them down, drywalls are added for it to have enough tine to exchange heat and not disappear immediately. Automation opens/closes things in correct order with filters used as timers, and turn off 5 out of 6 scanners once storm is detected to save a little bit of power. There are ways to save more power (pulsing scanners on/off) but i do not like them.
6 scanners for 100% network is needed for predictable timing, which is really convinient for automation.

For rockets everything is simple. One more scanner set to detect rocket (which will have 100% network too) which opens doors, + automation signal from rocket when its ready opens doors if there is no shower.

Also i only use jetpacks in space and do not allow dupes in regular suits into space, so that i do not have to build ladders. Room for changing suits looks like this (the mess on top is liquid oxygen production based on thermo-regulators since i do not have supercoolant yet, with turbine turned off it is possible to get quite a lot of steam out of it too):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835646740

Rockets themselves (steam, this is very beginning of space exploration for this colony):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835654188
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835653978
Nothing fancy but fully automated, and really nothing more is needed. Tiles are obsidian to avoid melting as much as possible (3 central tiles should be built out of tungsten to avoid melting entirely, which i do not have).
Meteors do not damage rockets, and they have only one chance with rather low probability (=>rare) to get in - if rocket returns during shower.

[GMC]

Originally posted by ForwarD:

2). My plan is to have robo-miners and sweepers to transfer them into cooling pool. Perfectly would be drop them into 100C water to boil it and pump out steam for my future rocket. Will debris temperature be enough for boiling water pool?

Mined regolith doesn't transfer heat. To make steam, allow regolith to pile up on top of a bunker door which forms the roof of the steam chamber. Add a tempshift plate to better conduct heat down into the water pool.

Don't put too much effort into the steam setup. Steam rockets will get you to the 10/20km planets with research modules, which is enough to research petroleum rockets. They won't get you any further than that, and they can't lift cargo modules.

Originally posted by ForwarD:

3). Other solution is making whole cooling loop on pwater and cooling sweepers and miners. Do they need tempshift plates behind or they will exchange heat just with radiant pipe behind them?

To cool sweepers/miners, they need to be in an atmosphere (which isn't really practical). They won't transfer heat to adjacent tiles, or to radiant pipes or tempshift plates through a vacuum.

Originally posted by ForwarD:

Though I will need to cool space machinery somehow anyway, right?

I just build miners from steel, and deconstruct and rebuild when they eventually overheat. If you're planning on playing for a thousand cycles, you might want to use thermium.

Originally posted by ForwarD:

6). How good are jetpacks?

They're slow. Well-trodden paths still need ladders or vacuum tubes. Jetpacks let you avoid having to build scaffolding to mine out large areas, build pipes/wires/etc across open space, climb onto roofs, etc. Jetpacks don't work in liquid, so you may still need scaffolding for deep lakes.

You may occasionally have dupes getting stuck and running out of fuel in a location they can't get out of on foot, which is worse if they have the Unconstructive (can't build) or Trypophobia (can't dig) traits. This doesn't happen often, though. Dupes will try to return to the dock when fuel starts getting low, so it's only an issue if they get trapped (by falling sand/snow/regolith, liquids, etc).

Originally posted by ForwarD:

7). Whole rocket launch complex setup. No idea how it should look like. Can meteors damage rocket? Do I need steel launch table?

You need bunker doors on top of the silo. These should ideally be operated by a scanner which detects the returning rocket (the option appears on the scanner once the rocket is fully built). The bunker doors will get broken if they aren't open when the rocket lands (in which case, deconstruct and rebuild; a repair errand takes over a cycle per door).

The best place to build a rocket silo is wherever the top-most abyssalite layer is lowest (the "space exposure" region roughly follows the line of the abyssalite), so you have the most vertical space. The entire silo wants to be in the "space exposure" region so that the superheated exhaust gas from the rocket dissipates quickly, before it has chance to melt anything.

Originally posted by ForwarD:

9). Do power and automation wires participate in heat exhange? Would I need to cool down wires behind bunker doors and such?

Wires won't get hot enough to be damaged by regolith (they don't have an overheat temperature, you only need to worry about the material's melting point). Wires inside the silo or running through bunker doors at the top of the silo may get vaporised by the rocket's exhaust, so it's best to use steel for those.

The centre of the pad on which the rocket engine is built tends to get vaporised, but that doesn't actually matter unless you need to rebuild the rocket (the rocket must be built on a solid foundation but once built will work without it).

[Clonefarmer]

Originally posted by GMC:

The centre of the pad on which the rocket engine is built tends to get vaporised, but that doesn't actually matter unless you need to rebuild the rocket (the rocket must be built on a solid foundation but once built will work without it).

A little pwater on the launchpad will keep the rocket and pad from getting cooked during launches. The steam created during launch will cool the pad and the rocket down.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835667850

Give the launch pad some space underneath so the closest biome doesn't get cooked.

[ForwarD]

Originally posted by L37:

Mine looks like this currently:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835634719
there is more of the same (3 more scanners) to the right.
I do nothing about debris, they just accumulate there and dupes can use them if they are needed for something.
This is 2x more miners then minimally needed, but since they are made out of regular metals they are cheap, and more means faster and less downtime for solar panels.
Solar panels... here they are not built yet, but they can be built below all covered area, mesh tiles and all the buildings do not interfere with light.
Heat exchange does not happen in vacuum, so i vent 20g/s oxygen through each vent near robo-miners only during storms to cool them down, drywalls are added for it to have enough tine to exchange heat and not disappear immediately. Automation opens/closes things in correct order with filters used as timers, and turn off 5 out of 6 scanners once storm is detected to save a little bit of power. There are ways to save more power (pulsing scanners on/off) but i do not like them.
6 scanners for 100% network is needed for predictable timing, which is really convinient for automation.

For rockets everything is simple. One more scanner set to detect rocket (which will have 100% network too) which opens doors, + automation signal from rocket when its ready opens doors if there is no shower.

Also i only use jetpacks in space and do not allow dupes in regular suits into space, so that i do not have to build ladders. Room for changing suits looks like this (the mess on top is liquid oxygen production based on thermo-regulators since i do not have supercoolant yet, with turbine turned off it is possible to get quite a lot of steam out of it too):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835646740

Rockets themselves (steam, this is very beginning of space exploration for this colony):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835654188
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1835653978
Nothing fancy but fully automated, and really nothing more is needed. Tiles are obsidian to avoid melting as much as possible.
Meteors do not damage rockets, and they have only one chance with rather low probability (=>rare) to get in - if rocket returns during shower.

Thanks, interesting.

1) What is bizarre automation of first picture for?

2) I got it, you can build 6 scanners and buffer gate to close bunker doors exacly 1 second before meteor shower to get more solar panels uptime. But you could just connect all scanners with 1 automation wire and they will work anyway. I don't really need to optimize power generation, because have enough other means to generate more power anyway right now. Only several panels just for some free energy. Saving 600W by disabling extra scanners seems interesting idea, but I still not sure I want to havemore then 2 (3rd for furure rocket).

3) You put robo-miners on auto-doors so they destroy regolith too, right?

4) I afraid dupes will use hot materials to build something inside base or other places I would prefer keep cold, so I would add some debris removal for colling and reuse or at least reserved space for adding in in the future.

5) Your cooling solution could use any gas, right? I have tons of 80C polluten oxygen I don't know how to use anyway.

Overall big thanks, a lot valuable information for me.

[ForwarD]

@GMC @Clonefarmer Thanks too, many good information and nice launch table setup.

[L37]

Originally posted by ForwarD:

Thanks, interesting.

1) What is bizarre automation of first picture for?

2) I got it, you can build 6 scanners and buffer gate to close bunker doors exacly 1 second before meteor shower to get more solar panels uptime. But you could just connect all scanners with 1 automation wire and they will work anyway. I don't really need to optimize power generation, because have enough other means to generate more power anyway right now. Only several panels just for some free energy. Saving 600W by disabling extra scanners seems interesting idea, but I still not sure I want to havemore then 2 (3rd for furure rocket).

3) You put robo-miners on auto-doors so they destroy regolith too, right?

4) I afraid dupes will use hot materials to build something inside base or other places I would prefer keep cold, so I would add some debris removal for colling and reuse or at least reserved space for adding in in the future.

5) Your cooling solution could use any gas, right? I have tons of 80C polluten oxygen I don't know how to use anyway.

Overall big thanks, a lot valuable information for me.

1. Automation is for doors, both sets. I need to close bunker doors on shower while avoiding them re-opening because network quality jumped to zero as soon as they started closing, turn on cooling, then i need to open airlocks miners are on for junk to fall through them before opening bunker doors again, open bunker doors, then close airlocks so that miners can mine and turn off cooling. This automation does that.

2. Let's say 100% network is convinient as it is predictable. Less then that and you have some randomness. You can work with that, but it does not really cost much to build 6 scanners as you need all the stuff (miners, etc) for solar panels anyway.

3. If the doors are closed they work, yes.

4. Metals are fine, they have low SHC and will not cause much trouble. Regolith is not used to build things. And there is nothing more there. You can add sweepers obviously, just be carefull with them interfering with scanners. I did not reserve any space because of those stupid indestructible facility this time, will have to deal with it later =\

5. Yes, obviously. I just have too much oxygen and do not know what to do with it so i used oxygen.

And one more thing - while it complains about missing gantry it works just fine as long as pilot has jetpack :) Way to avoid a bunch of extra automation and other stuff.

And more... rocket crushes regolith on landing/takeoff so no need for miners there as long as opening is exactly the widths of the engine. This is what bunker tile block on top of the doors is for.

[ForwarD]

Originally posted by L37:

Originally posted by ForwarD:

Thanks, interesting.

1) What is bizarre automation of first picture for?

2) I got it, you can build 6 scanners and buffer gate to close bunker doors exacly 1 second before meteor shower to get more solar panels uptime. But you could just connect all scanners with 1 automation wire and they will work anyway. I don't really need to optimize power generation, because have enough other means to generate more power anyway right now. Only several panels just for some free energy. Saving 600W by disabling extra scanners seems interesting idea, but I still not sure I want to havemore then 2 (3rd for furure rocket).

3) You put robo-miners on auto-doors so they destroy regolith too, right?

4) I afraid dupes will use hot materials to build something inside base or other places I would prefer keep cold, so I would add some debris removal for colling and reuse or at least reserved space for adding in in the future.

5) Your cooling solution could use any gas, right? I have tons of 80C polluten oxygen I don't know how to use anyway.

Overall big thanks, a lot valuable information for me.

1. Automation is for doors, both sets. I need to close bunker doors on shower while avoiding them re-opening because network quality jumped to zero as soon as they started closing, turn on cooling, then i need to open airlocks miners are on for junk to fall through them before opening bunker doors again, open bunker doors, then close airlocks so that miners can mine and turn off cooling. This automation does that.

2. Let's say 100% network is convinient as it is predictable. Less then that and you have some randomness. You can work with that, but it does not really cost much to build 6 scanners as you need all the stuff (miners, etc) for solar panels anyway.

3. If the doors are closed they work, yes.

4. Metals are fine, they have low SHC and will not cause much trouble. Regolith is not used to build things. And there is nothing more there. You can add sweepers obviously, just be carefull with them interfering with scanners. I did not reserve any space because of those stupid indestructible facility this time, will have to deal with it later =\

5. Yes, obviously. I just have too much oxygen and do not know what to do with it so i used oxygen.

Sweepers are not "heavy machinery" accorfing to wiki so scanners should be fine. Should work to add them right under miners so they would use same cooling system. At least that's the plan now.

Thank again s for detailed answers, impressive setup. Time to make something similar now.

[ForwarD]

Originally posted by L37:

And one more thing - while it complains about missing gantry it works just fine as long as pilot has jetpack :) Way to avoid a bunch of extra automation and other stuff.

Yes you convinced me to change to jet suits now, regardless how much space these docks require.

[L37]

Originally posted by ForwarD:

Sweepers are not "heavy machinery" accorfing to wiki so scanners should be fine. Should work to add them right under miners so they would use same cooling system. At least that's the plan now.

Thank again s for detailed answers, impressive setup. Time to make something similar now.

Yes, it will probably work with sweepers like that.
Just be carefull that in this specific setup spacing is important. I left 2 tiles on top of bunker doors from map border to avoid loosing too much metals, so i need at least 4 tiles (since there can be 2 more blocks of regolith above map border) between mesh tiles and miners (or other machines) to avoid hot regolith touching (and breaking) them.

[ForwarD]

Originally posted by L37:

Originally posted by ForwarD:

Sweepers are not "heavy machinery" accorfing to wiki so scanners should be fine. Should work to add them right under miners so they would use same cooling system. At least that's the plan now.

Thank again s for detailed answers, impressive setup. Time to make something similar now.

Yes, it will probably work with sweepers like that.
Just be carefull that in this specific setup spacing is important. I left 2 tiles on top of bunker doors from map border to avoid loosing too much metals, so i need at least 4 tiles (since there can be 2 more blocks of regolith above map border) between mesh tiles and miners (or other machines) to avoid hot regolith touching (and breaking) them.

Good to know, will make my setup on same height then. I doubt I will need any of these metals anyway, I rather see them as a nuisance which will impede future perfect cooling :)

[ForwarD]

And several days later I launched my first rocket into space! Took me 879 cycles, but as it happens all time in this game always some ♥♥♥♥ happens and I run out of oil just in a middle of space race. So took a pause and built oil well room. Whatever. Rocket launched and that's only important. Added 5 research modules, don't know is it correct or not.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838023000

Many thanks to you guys for advices. Want to share my experience and how my setup looks like, hope it might be helpful for someone.

First, space area. Basically I added sweepers to L37's design and sligthly modified cooling for a sake of simplitity. Only one problem was automation design, but I managed to do it too. Sweepers removing only metals. Whole area closed to dupes access. With 10C oxygen, 20g/s * 19 vents = 380g/s cooling just fine.
I'm using only 2 scanners atm (also disabling second when meteor shower). Just don't have enough place to build more right now. And on top of need to calculate how many solar panels do you need to have advantage from constant -120W for every +33s panels uptime. Maybe will calculate later if decide to expand this area.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838023131

Second of all launch pad, modified Clonefarmer design. Also cooling just nice. But made miners from steel here just in case and added 20g/s * 4 vents oxygen for them too.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838023232

And then supporting facilities. Luckily enough there was Water geyser near space breach area. So I used it's water to make SPOM, then generated oxygen cooling down in coolant pool (left of steam setup on the picture). Some other water from it too used to make steam in that steam chamber. Turbine is just for fancy, never used it yet. Left reservoir contains petroleum buffer for jet suits and future better engine.
Conveyor drops metails into coolant pool, sweeper removes them from time to time to stockpile line (manually atm). But cold metals just for free.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838023290

Plus couple of screens how whole colony looks like. Nothing special, but it's in a first my playthrough I passed through survival into abundance of everything.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838023369
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838023444

[L37]

Nice, it worked :)
Sweeping only metals and bringing them somewhere easily accessible is actually a great idea...
Now you will have to solve whole bunch of rather interesting challenges with new fuels and such.
Also be careful with that launchpad as you switch to different fuels, rocket heats up 3*9 area below the engine to some stupid temperature like ~3000C ignoring any obstacles, so you will evaporate a lot of water and still likely melt 3 central tiles, those have to be built out of materials that can survive ~3000C... window tiles made out of diamond is an option, metal tiles out of tungsten is another one, may be there is something else that can survive. And be careful about what's below the pad in those area, it will be heated up/melted too.

[ForwarD]

Originally posted by L37:

Nice, it worked :)
Sweeping only metals and bringing them somewhere easily accessible is actually a great idea...
Now you will have to solve whole bunch of rather interesting challenges with new fuels and such.
Also be careful with that launchpad as you switch to different fuels, rocket heats up 3*9 area below the engine to some stupid temperature like ~3000C ignoring any obstacles, so you will evaporate a lot of water and still likely melt 3 central tiles, those have to be built out of materials that can survive ~3000C... window tiles made out of diamond is an option, metal tiles out of tungsten is another one, may be there is something else that can survive. And be careful about what's below the pad in those area, it will be heated up/melted too.

Is it ignoring abyssalite wall as well? In worst case scenario I can just move launch pad up a bit, there are a lot of space.

[Dschinghis Pan]

Originally posted by L37:

Nice, it worked :)
Sweeping only metals and bringing them somewhere easily accessible is actually a great idea...
Now you will have to solve whole bunch of rather interesting challenges with new fuels and such.
Also be careful with that launchpad as you switch to different fuels, rocket heats up 3*9 area below the engine to some stupid temperature like ~3000C ignoring any obstacles, so you will evaporate a lot of water and still likely melt 3 central tiles, those have to be built out of materials that can survive ~3000C... window tiles made out of diamond is an option, metal tiles out of tungsten is another one, may be there is something else that can survive. And be careful about what's below the pad in those area, it will be heated up/melted too.

Does this mean creating diamond-glass right below the rocked and filling the area below with water would create tons of steam, which I could use later on to refill the rocket? Assuming I find a way to pump it back in, even though it's way to hot for a regular pump...

[L37]

It is ignoring everything, it just heats up 3*9 area below the engine no matter what's in the way.
Abyssalite itself will survive as it has higher melting point, but will heat up too. If you do not want the heat (which can potentially be used for steam turbines or something) the easiest way probably is to create vacuum in those area, in which case there is nothing to heat up and no heat as a result...

Originally posted by Dschinghis Pan:

Does this mean creating diamond-glass right below the rocked and filling the area below with water would create tons of steam, which I could use later on to refill the rocket? Assuming I find a way to pump it back in, even though it's way to hot for a regular pump...

Yeah, you can get a lot of heat from it, it is a bit tricky to use because of temperatures, but still possible. For refilling rocket it will be useless though, because there are no materials which allow pump to survive there.
If you want to refill a rocket from it you will have to do something like door-powered heat exchanger with nearby room with water, where temperature will be limited to something reasonable.