Question about warm biomes

[valenti_scott]

Hello-
I'm still sort of new, and at this point the real villain of the game seems to be heat; i.e., the warm biomes surrounding the initial temperate biome. If the player simply builds his base in the central part of the map, the temperate area, will the heat from the warm biomes eventually heat up the entire central biome? Or is it "safe" to ignore this possibility?
-Scott

[SKull]

It will unless you prevent it. Normal heat from dupes and things like bathrooms, composts, science machines, sieves etc can easily be countered with a few wheezeworts. The things you do that are too hot to cool this way are for example power plants and electrolyzers. But if you place those things outside the base, and then work on cooling them in other ways there, your base will have a good chance of staying cool.
If you are bordering a toxic biome that is hot you can simply build a wall of insulating tiles between it and your base. This will almost completely block outside heat from getting in, so that your base is now permanently cool if you have placed enough wheezeworts in it. The only way in or out for heat/cold then will be your actual doors and exits. And if you place a wheezewort there as well it will act as a barrier for outside heat. The insulating walls will also keep the chilling effect from the wheezeworts inside the base, so it works both ways. I usually have more problems with my base getting too cold by about cycle 200, and have to uproot wheezeworts to heat it up again.

I have noticed that the ocean asteroid at least barely has any wheezeworts in it at all, so I am having a few issues dealing with that. The key then is good placement of heat sensitive things like farms. Everything else can sort of muddle along for a long while in hot conditions, but the farms really need to stay cool. And once you get water cooling loops you can deal with normal heat fairly well. Just be careful of where you do extra warm things like power and electros.

[valenti_scott]

It seems like I have to do some exploring to find a cold biome with wheezeworts in it. So the dupes will have to wander through heat of 95F or more to find the cold biomes, risking heatstroke? And also, when I dig a tunnel through the warm biomes won't it let more heat into my base?

Early in the game I should go out into the warm biome and put power plants there? Even though the dupes will have to build them in heat of 95F or more? And the process of digging out there might let more heat into the cool part of the base?

The thing about building a wall of insulating tiles sounds like a good idea. But it takes a while to gain that skill on the research tree. Then there is the question of which material is best, and where to get that material. Then the dupes have to do the labor to dig out areas for the tiles and install the tiles. Can I do all this in time, before the heat starts encroaching, and given all the other chores which need to be done (like searching for wheezeworts)?

[berandro]

Originally posted by valenti_scott:

It seems like I have to do some exploring to find a cold biome with wheezeworts in it. So the dupes will have to wander through heat of 95F or more to find the cold biomes, risking heatstroke? And also, when I dig a tunnel through the warm biomes won't it let more heat into my base?

Early in the game I should go out into the warm biome and put power plants there? Even though the dupes will have to build them in heat of 95F or more? And the process of digging out there might let more heat into the cool part of the base?

The thing about building a wall of insulating tiles sounds like a good idea. But it takes a while to gain that skill on the research tree. Then there is the question of which material is best, and where to get that material. Then the dupes have to do the labor to dig out areas for the tiles and install the tiles. Can I do all this in time, before the heat starts encroaching, and given all the other chores which need to be done (like searching for wheezeworts)?

You definitely have time to insulate your base, don't worry. Insulated tiles is located very early in the research tree and you can build insulated tiles out of any mineral, even sandstone. Other materials will be better, but it doesn't really matter that much at this point.

[Hedning]

Your dupes won't easily overheat and normal gasses like carbon dioxide and oxygen act very much like insulation, so digging tunnells can actually slow rather than increase heat flow.

[Gamefever]

You want to get the Airlock Tech and Insulation before you start digging into your other biomes.
For one you dont really want to be generating oxygen for everywhere. So try to lock up your base living area early on.

The material you want for most insulation is ignus rock, just hover over the material types in Build. Or what you do is click on the material after its built in the game and click on the properties tab, that will tell you what you need to know.

Tip, Dont store Mats in hot area's,,,It heats up your building material.

Early cooling is really tech dependant and you have to actually make a lot of differrent stuff from differrent tree's. Basically you build at least 5 Ice Machines layer Temp Shift Plates made of ignus rock behind those.....You want a pool of water below that (a small pool)...Layer the bottom of that pool with Metal Tiles to disperse heat along....You want to insulate that pool with ignus rock insulated tiles as well so that its not picking up outside heat or letting the cold out.

You then make conveyor belts to carry ice made from the ice makers all around the pool cooling the water. Basically its an involved build involving a lot of techs but yes you can legit delete heat this way.
The build gets more involved with creating whole rooms that carry over hot mats that you need to cool down like say gas using gas pipes or liquids using liquid pipes. This works because you can stack both forms of piping and conveyor lines on top of each other....Plus plaster metal temp shift plates and metal tiles to help the heat transfer between the Ice on your conveyer and the liquids/gases your cooling down.

[Elidrin]

Just keep the heat away from your sensitive farms and the rest will take care of itself as long as you don't build your living quarters on top of a volcano.

[berandro]

Originally posted by Gamefever:

You want to get the Airlock Tech and Insulation before you start digging into your other biomes.
For one you dont really want to be generating oxygen for everywhere. So try to lock up your base living area early on.

The material you want for most insulation is ignus rock, just hover over the material types in Build. Or what you do is click on the material after its built in the game and click on the properties tab, that will tell you what you need to know.

Tip, Dont store Mats in hot area's,,,It heats up your building material.

Early cooling is really tech dependant and you have to actually make a lot of differrent stuff from differrent tree's. Basically you build at least 5 Ice Machines layer Temp Shift Plates made of ignus rock behind those.....You want a pool of water below that (a small pool)...Layer the bottom of that pool with Metal Tiles to disperse heat along....You want to insulate that pool with ignus rock insulated tiles as well so that its not picking up outside heat or letting the cold out.

You then make conveyor belts to carry ice made from the ice makers all around the pool cooling the water. Basically its an involved build involving a lot of techs but yes you can legit delete heat this way.
The build gets more involved with creating whole rooms that carry over hot mats that you need to cool down like say gas using gas pipes or liquids using liquid pipes. This works because you can stack both forms of piping and conveyor lines on top of each other....Plus plaster metal temp shift plates and metal tiles to help the heat transfer between the Ice on your conveyer and the liquids/gases your cooling down.

Nice stuff, but a bit overkill for early game

[valenti_scott]

Thanks for the ideas everyone!

[valenti_scott]

One thing I noticed is that some "warm" biomes are worse than others. In my current map, there is a biome below my base which is about 90F. The other biomes surrounding my base are around 110F.

As for what to do in the early game, I'd say to build in the "green" areas, or I'd say anything less than 80F is fine. Then when I decide to build a coal power plant or an electrolyzer, I'd venture out into a warmer area, like around 80-85F to build them.

I like the idea Gamefever proposed using ice for cooling, and using a combination of water, tempshift plates, insulation, etc., to accomplish it. I guess it makes sense to put them around the periphery of the base, where it is warmer, since the ice makers themselves run warm.

As for building an insulating layer, I think the tricky part would be the vertical sections, because first you'd have to build a ladder, and then the insulating layer next to the ladder. Do insulating tiles made of igneous rock provide better insulation than raw igneous rock? I guess I can test that myself by building such tiles and then compare properties.

Also, I could build a sample of each insulating tile out of the materials which I have available, and then compare their properties. The idea of building an insulating layer feels kind of futile, because the heat will soon get through anyway; the tiles would just slow it down a bit. All in all the game feels like a real struggle for survival, without much feeling of "progress," but I guess it is a survival game!

[mikek]

this is an extreme example. one of my first moment of creating liquid oxygen.
but what you can see in the picture is what insulated walls do.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1621024183

the hot side is around 300c, the coldroom is around -185.
in the middle i stored the cold liquid so that was cooling the place a bit :P.

for the temp. in your base 1 wall will do enough

[valenti_scott]

A great screenshot, thanks. I was also pondering how heat energy (or any energy) is conserved throughout the map; at least it should be if the game is realistic.

So you can't really get rid of energy, all you can do is move it or change its form. For example, coal contains a certain amount of energy, and is then converted to heat by a coal power plant.

Or you can attempt to cool your base by creating a cooling medium, like water or gas or tempshift plates, and pipe it through your base. But the machine which creates the cool medium in itself would also create heat, so that heat has to be vented away from the base. All the while keeping the base insulated.

BTW are there insulated doors? How do you allow the dupes temporary access to warmer areas, without letting the warm air into your base, unless you have some kind of insulated door?

Or maybe an airlock is sufficient? That would at least keep out the warm air, but not heat in general. All in all the game is a tremendous puzzle and makes Factorio look like nursery school.

[mikek]

Originally posted by SKull:

If you are bordering a toxic biome that is hot you can simply build a wall of insulating tiles between it and your base. This will almost completely block outside heat from getting in, so that your base is now permanently cool if you have placed enough wheezeworts in it. The only way in or out for heat/cold then will be your actual doors and exits. And if you place a wheezewort there as well it will act as a barrier for outside heat.

this for your last question

[valenti_scott]

That's interesting, but I don't have any wheezeworts. I was thinking one approach might be to create a vacuum airlock, and the dupes would just have to hold their breath while passing through it.

[hacksaw12]

Don't worry too much about the temperature your dupes are in. I haven't looked up the numbers lately, but they will be just fine in 110F areas, I think it's somewhere around mid 140s before they will start to get heatstroke. It's your farm plants you've got to be careful with, or you will stifle them. Keep your farm areas cool, good advice on power production outside the base, keep hot water pipes insulated if in your base, insulate the perimeter as soon as you can (the hotter the surrounding biomes, insulate first), remember liquids soak up a lot more heat than gases, and use liquid locks to isolate heat and gases. If you use two liquids, you can reduce the amount required for liquid locks a lot. When doing that, you can even use polluted water for the lower liquid with water on top. The water will stop the polluted water from off gasing.

[Gamefever]

@ valenti Scott,

I understand the concern over heat, about a week or two ago I really freaked out about it, but then figured out how to create a cooling system that will work with the Ice Makers.

For insulation literally 1 insulation tile and 1 normal tile side by side is ussually enough unless your dealing with extreme temps which happens in the late game. At that point your double insulating and checking seriously what mats.

Depending on which build of the game your playing...Check the Water Sieve, in the "Testing Patch" the sieve isnt an issue anymore but in the current version of the game it produces set clean water at 40C which is the biggest heating issue you face early on. In testing patch, water temp is determined more by the temperature of the sand used for filtration.

So if your on an old version of the game your better off avoiding cleaning water with the sieve since it is going to be the largest source of heat generation.

The next sort of issue you face is power generation.
This however is a lot easier to handle when you understand that for a real long time the hamster wheel with common jumbo battery is about all you need for a long time in the game. 2 hamster wheels with 2 batteries can power a lot. Also the Dupes get atheletics from using the hamster wheels so it doubles as training, which isnt exactly explained anywhere.

If you use the old sieve, you just need a dirty water pool which you then just use for certain plants ...Heck maybe even as a cooling medium before turning into 40C fresh water.

For the most part you just gotta figure out how to delay the use of the water sieve till you absolutely have to use it. Or just use the Test Launch Beta.

For heat cold transfer and gas/gas pressure...A simple pair of Airlock doors can handle a lot more than you would think they should...The amount of transfer is minute. You can also create "liquid locks" if you have to zero transfer of say gases.