Dupe builds, attribute learning and interests - help and advice?

[Kyana]

Soo.. Im trying to figure out what the best dupe builds are.. Im just spawning dupes with sandbox :P i have too many. Some have +10 in one attribute (I have them in the attributes: Science, strength, digging, creativity, atletics, machinery, medicine), one even +10 and +3 (digging 10 + creativity 3) and no downsides. However, they only have one interest. And science is usefull.. I don't know what to do.

What builds do you recommend? I need researcher, supply/tidy, doctor/decorator, farmers, ranchers, operators and i do not know what is the best build. High science skill is usefull for attribute learning for all of them. I am curious if you have some more tips and information.

I have some other questions as well:

Apart from skills gained (from "jobs" ):

I read that cuisine doesn't level up/gain xp from cooking, but instead gives the attribute for machinery? Is that still true?
(So i need a high cuisine attribute dupe build?)

Does ranching attribute level from ranching or still not?

Strength only increases from mopping?


Does it matter if my engineer (last morale tier skill/job) has the unconstructive trait? (That one is for rail construction and provides +2 construction, i dont really need to build rails i use sandbox for rails :P)


Interests are usefull for morale, because it costs less to learn skills. What else are interests good for? I read somewhere that dupes doing errands in accordance to their interests learn attributes faster. But i am not sure. The personal interests in game tels me "Dupe X enjoys these kinds of work". What does it do?

Really appreciate some input and advice. <3

[Hedning]

Really good traits at the start are digging, learning and athletics. You 4th dupe should always be a digger so you can dig out of your granite barrier.

In general my new dupes (after the first few) get exosuit training and science first to make them level up faster.

My cooks get high cooling skill from the cooking. You don't need high starting cuisine. Also interest in it only gives +2 morale once all levels are taken, so not that useful.

Strength increases carry capacity.

If your engineer can't construct that is bad. in general I never take dupes that can't construct or dig, because I want all of them to be able to get on a construction project when I plan it.

It used to be that interests doubled level up speed. This system is no longer used.

[Kyana]

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/110333-has-anyone-noticed-that-attribute-levels-for-ranchers-have-not-increased/

Here it says ranching doesn't level up, only from egg hugging.

Cooking doesnt level from cooking, but it levels up tinkering (machinery..)

Strength doesnt increase from carrying, but from mopping.

Doctor + construction also not increasing with errands.

Many people say this.
But then someone else says it does increase. Im confused.

For the learning speed:

The jobs (now "skills") used to be learned 2 times faster. But now people say that doing errands with high learning skill increases the speed of gaining "attributes" (for example, the doctor gains +1 medicine "attribute" from working on doctoring errands faster with attributes in science). So its not learning the "skill" (as in what used to be job) but learning the attribute from doing errands.

It still says 1 science point increases "+ 10% skill leveling". I have a dupe with 10 science, it says +100% Skill Leveling, So this dupe learns all "attributes" (they say skill but it is actually attribute learning now) 2 times faster from doing errands than dupes with 0 science attribute points.

[Hedning]

I don't know exactly where they get the cooking skill from, but considering that the cook and only the cook has high skill I think it's safe to assume it's from the cooking .

Doctor skill is gained, but obviously slowly because you are not treating people often.

Construction skill increases fine. I have dupes with 20 construction.

Ranching is correct however. They don't get skill increase from grooming.

I don't know what actually increases str. To me it doesn't matter because I'm not going to give them pointless mopping errands just to level it faster. In any case they level it fast enough.

High learning has always helped to increase attributes faster. It can be a bit confusing because "skills" can refer to different things.

[asanger]

A Tend to start with 2 digger and a researcher with +7 skill just to progress quickly in the early game.
Multi skilled dupes will have less morale issues later in the game but that can be managed with food and decor anyway.

I tend to worry more about any negative traits instead of skills for later dupes.

[Kyana]

Thanks guys,

What about the Personal Interests, does it only save morale when learning the skill or does it also do something else?

I have read that the personal interest is usefull when doing errand of the interest because its supposedly increasing learning speed of the attribute related to the interest.

So: A dupe that is interested in cooking learns the attribute cuisine (+1 cuisine) faster when doing cooking errands - than a dupe who doesn't have the cooking interest doing the same errands.

Is this true? Does personal interest affect more?

[Jarcionek]

In regards to skills/interests, there are a few that I find quite useless:

• medicine - I have only one dupe with this skill, just in case, overall I care about my dupes so that they never get ill
  
• creativity - you literally need 1 or 2 dupes able to do that
  
• agriculture - I rely on wild farm and auto dropping rather than harvesting
  
• suit wearing - you will only ever invest in it in case of an astronaut, who will be away most of the time

In the end game, I give my duplicants the following skills (in this order), and nothing else:

• supplying and exosuit training (they are forbidden to leave the base until then)
  
• building
  
• operating (because mechatronics engineering gives +2 construction)
  
• tidying
  
• whatever they are interested in
  
• researching (just because I don't have morale issues)

So this is how it looks for me now:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1844328806

I pay more attention to traits - there are a couple of negative ones that I absolutely don't take:

• those that affect resources consumption (botomless stomach, mouth breather),
  
• bathroom usage (small bladder, irritable bowel),
  
• make the management more difficult (narcoleptic, loud sleeper, flatulent),
  
• or decrease my favourite skills (anemic and noodle arms; slow learner is ok)

In regards to flatulent, a colony with most duplicants flatulent and some infrastructure to collect the natural gas can be interesting - 20 duplicants would supply natural gas generator working non-stop. However, having only 10 or 20% of the colony flatulent would be annoying. Also, I am not sure if it is still the case, but flatulent ones used to fart through the atmo suits, which was making management of certain systems more annoying and you had to control the door access.

Finally, remember that duplicants' attributes are capped at 20, plus the traits and interests modifiers.

Originally posted by Hedning:

I don't know what actually increases str. To me it doesn't matter because I'm not going to give them pointless mopping errands just to level it faster. In any case they level it fast enough.

I think you might be right with mopping.

I am at over 2000 cycles and my starting duplicants have 11, 11 and 16 strength (and that's after investing in supply and tidying, giving +8 strength in total).

[Kyana]

Yeah i know about the traits which i should or should not have. I just have all the best dupes in the world spawned in front of me, and i even made a note text on all the interests and attributes and traits but i dont know which ones to pick. i literally had 110 good dupes :P..


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

84 DUPES.. Don't know what to pick and what to remove :P they are all so great and i dont want to regret killing one with a great build


Like this is what i have now lol:



Research[1] + Suitwear[2] + Supply[3] + Operating[4]

[Research] [Suit wearing] Atl 6 Sci 3 *Loud sleeper *Twinkletoes
[Research] [Suit wearing] Atl 3 Sci 3 Crea 3 Strength 3 *No Doctor *Interior decorator(penalty decor) *Buff

[Research] [Operating] Mach 6 Exc 3 Atl 3 Science 3 *Unconstructive *Molehands *Twinkletoes *Geasemonkey
[Research] Sci 10 *Irribowel *BottomStomach *Germresistant *Quicklearner
Sci 7 Atl 3 *No Digging *Tinkletoes
Sci 7 Mach 3 *No Attack *Greasemonkey *No Taste
Sci 7 Mach 3 *Loud Sleeper *Greasemonkey


- Pioneer/explorer:

Digging Building Supply + Suitwearing
+ Research
* Germresistance, Diver lungs

[Digging] Dig 7 Mach 3 Str 3 *Bottomless stomach *Greasemonkey *Buff
[Digging[ Dig 7 Sci 3 *No cooking *Quick learner
[Digging] Dig 10 *Irritable bowel *Molehands
[Digging] Dig 10 *Smallbladder *Molehands

* [Decorator] [Digging] Crea 7 Dig 3 Science 3 *Bottomless stomach *Quick learner *Interior decorator *Nightowl

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Building + Supply + Digging *kan research, digging en construction
+ Operating
+ Suit wearing

[Build] [Supply] [Suitwearing] Build 1 Atl 4 Str 1 *No doctor *Twinkletoes
[Build] [Dig] [Research] Build 1 Dig 1 Sci 4 *IrriBowel *Quick Learner *Iron Gut
[Build] [Dig] [Decorator] Build 1 Dig 4 Mach 3 Crea 1 *No Cook *Grease Monkey *Mole Hands
[Build] [Supply] [Tidy] Build 1 Dig 3 Str 2 *No Cook *Mole Hands
[Build] [Suitwear] Build 3 Atl 6 Cook 3 *Irribowel *Gourmet *Twinkle Toes
[Build] Build 7 Str 3 *No Doctor *Buff *Iron gut
[Build] Build 7 Mach 3 Sci 3 *NO DIGGING *Quick learner *Grease monkey *Iron gut

-------------------------------
Digging Ranching Farming + Suitwearing
+ Supply

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RANCHER HOOG RANCH SKILL +Excavation voor attack

Ranching + Supply
+ Suit wearing
+ Farming
+ Digging

[Ranch] [Supply] Ranch 3 Str 3 *No Cook *No Taste
[Ranch] [Supply] [Dig] Ranch 1 Str 1 Exc 1 *No Cook *Uncultured

[Ranch] [suitwearing] Ranch 3 Atl 3 Sci 3 *Small bladder, *Quicklearner <---- WEG?? bewaren?
[Ranch] [suitwearing] Ranch 3 Atl 3 Sci 3 *No Cooking *Quicklearner

! [Ranch] [Cook] Ranch 3 Cook 3 Str 3, Exc 3 *No Research *Buff *Molehands
! [Ranch] [Cook] Ranch 3 Cook 3 Exc 3 *Unconstructive *Molehands

[Ranch] Ranch 7 Str 3 *No Research *Buff
Ranch 7 Exc 3 *Smallbladder *Molehands
Ranch 7 Exc 3 *No Cook *Molehands
Ranch 7 Str 3 Crea 3 *No Cook *Buff *Interior decorator
Ranch 7 Atl 3 Med 3 *Biohaz *Caregiver *Twinkletoes
----------------

FARMER HOOG FARM SKILL

Farming + Supply + Suitwearing
+ Ranch!! (Ook farm errands nodig voor plants in ranch)
+ Operating


! [Farm] [Supply] [Operate] Farm 1 Mach 1 Str 1 *Germ resistant *Diverlung *No cooking
! [Farm] [Supply] Farm 3 Mach 3 Str 6 *No Research
Farm 3 Mach 3 Str 6 *No research *Buff *Greasemonkey
[Farm] [Suit wearing] Farm 3 Atl 3 *No Cooking *Uncultured

[Farm] [Tidy] [Supply] Farm 1 Str 5 *Bottomless stomach *No digging *Early bird *Buff

WEG [Farm] [Operate] Farm 3 Mach 3 Crea 3 *No Cook *Interior Decorator *Iron Gut
[Farm] Farm 7 Atl 3 Str 3 *No Digging *Bottomless stomach *Twinkle toes *Buff
Farm 7 Str 3 *Unconstructive *Uncultured *Buff
Farm 7 Cook 3 *No Doctor *Gourmet
Farm 7 Sci 3 *No Digging *Quicklearner
Farm 7 Mach 3 *Loud Sleeper *Greasemonkey

-------------------
Cook + Supply + Suitwearing
+ Operate
+ Digging
+ Tidy
+ Medicine
Ranch?

[Cook] [Supply] [Suitwearing] Cook 1 Strength 1 Atl 1 *No Digging *No Taste
[Cook] Cook 7 Sci 3 Med 3 *Unconstructive *Quicklearner *Caregiver
Cook 7 Sci 3 *Small Bladder *Quick learner
Cook 7 Sci 3 *Bottomstomach *Quick learner
Cook 7 Atl 3 *No Research *Twinkletoes
weg Cook 7 Stre 3 *Unconstructive *Buff
Cook 7 Exc 3 *Loud Sleeper *Molehands
Cook 7 Mach 3 *No Digging *Greasemonkey

Cook 7 *Germresistant *No doctor



Operator + Supply + Suit wearing
+ Construction

[Operate] [Supply] Mach 3 Sci 3 Str 3 *No Attack *Early Bird *Quick Learner
[Operate] [Suit wearing] Mach 3 Atl 6 *twinkletoes *No Attack

* [Operate] [Research] Mach 6 Exc 3 Atl 3 Science 3 *Unconstructive *Molehands *Twinkletoes *Geasemonkey
[Operate] [Tidy] Mach 6 Str 3 *No Doctor *Greasemonkey
weg [Operate] Mach 10 *Biohazardous *Greasemonkey (1e )
weg [Operate] Mach 10 *Biohazardous *Greasemonkey (2e )
! [Operate] Mach 10 Crea3 *No Attack *Greasemonkey *Interior Decorator
[Operate] Mach 7 Str 3 *No Doctor *Buff
weg? [Operate] Mach 7 Atl 3 *No Cook *Twinkletoes

Operator + Supply + Construction


- Sweeper
Supply + Tidy + Suit wearing,
+ operating
* Twinkle Toes (ATLETICS), Buff (STRENGTH)

[Supply] [Tidy] [Suit wearing] Atl 1 Str 2 Cuis 3 *Loudsleeper *Bottomless stomach *Uncultured *Gourmet
[Supply] [Tidy] Str 6 Atl 3 *NO Attack *Twinkletoes
[supply] [Suit wearing] Str 3 Sci 3 Atl 3 *NO Cook *Quicklearner
[Supply] Str 7 Sci 3 *No Attack *Quicklearner
Str 10 *Irribowel *Buff
Str 10 *No attack *No cook *Buff

!! [Tidy] [Suit wearing] Mach 3 Atl 3 Sci 3 Crea 3 Str 3 *No Dig *Interior Decorator *Quicklearner *Geasemonkey
[Tidy] Sci 3 Str 7 *Biohaz, *Smallbladder *Quicklearner
[Tidy] Mach 3 Sci 3 Str 7 *No Attack *Smallbladder *Quicklearner *Greasemonkey
[Tidy] Sci 3 Str 7 *Biohaz, *Smallbladder *Quicklearner dubbel?
[Tidy] Sci 3 Str 7 *Irribowel *Quicklearner
[Tidy] Sci 3 Str 7 *No Cook *QuickLearner

Tidy x Atletics *germresist --> desinfect, mop, repair, sweep!!! empty storage, repair /repair supply


Supply x atl x Operate

[Supply] Mach 3 Str 7 *Irribowel *Diverlungs *Greasemonkey

[Suit wearing] Atl 7 Science 3 *No cooking *Quick learner
[Suit wearing] Atl 7 Science 3 *IrriBowel *Quick learner *No Taste
Cam Atl 7 Str 3 *No Attack *Buff
Atl 7 Exc 3 Cook 3 *No Doctor *Molehands *Gourmet <Critterkiller,
-!!!- [Suit wearing] Atl 10 *Mouthbreather *Twinkletoes *Night Owl

Supply
Sweep store supply life support supply - repair construction, empty storage

- MIXED DUPE MET: Doctor Decorator Toggle - *Tidy *Cook *Ranch *Life support/Toggle supply

Versies:

DOCTOR HOOG MEDICINE SKILL? X SUPPLY
Doctor + Supply
Doctor + Decorator * Science/fastlearner *Germresistant *Twinkletoes *Diver Lungs *Buff
+ Tidy
+ Supply
---> + Suit wearing
-NO COOK NO FARM NO RANCH (alleen beste skill voor goed effect)
MEDICINE

[Doctor] Med 7 Sci 3 *No Cook *Quick learner
[Doctor[ Med 7 Mach 3 Cook 3 *Irribowel *Gourmet *Greasemonkey
[Doctor] Med 10 *Irribowel *NoTaste *Caregiver
Med 10 *Unconstructive *Caregiver

Decorator CREATIVITY

[Decorator] [Digging] Crea 7 Dig 3 Science 3 *Bottomstomach *Quick learner *Interior decorator *Nightowl
[Decorator] Crea 7 Exc 3 Mach 3 *No Cook *Iron Gut *Greasemonkey *Molehands
[Decorator] Crea 10 *Narcoleptic *Unconstructive *Interior decorator *Iron gut
Picasso [Decorator] Crea 7 Sci 3 *No Attack *Quicklearner

[Kyana]

Originally posted by Jarcionek:

In regards to skills/interests, there are a few that I find quite useless:

• medicine - I have only one dupe with this skill, just in case, overall I care about my dupes so that they never get ill
  
• creativity - you literally need 1 or 2 dupes able to do that
  
• agriculture - I rely on wild farm and auto dropping rather than harvesting
  
• suit wearing - you will only ever invest in it in case of an astronaut, who will be away most of the time

In the end game, I give my duplicants the following skills (in this order), and nothing else:

• supplying and exosuit training (they are forbidden to leave the base until then)
  
• building
  
• operating (because mechatronics engineering gives +2 construction)
  
• tidying
  
• whatever they are interested in
  
• researching (just because I don't have morale issues)

So this is how it looks for me now:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1844328806

I pay more attention to traits - there are a couple of negative ones that I absolutely don't take:

• those that affect resources consumption (botomless stomach, mouth breather),
  
• bathroom usage (small bladder, irritable bowel),
  
• make the management more difficult (narcoleptic, loud sleeper, flatulent),
  
• or decrease my favourite skills (anemic and noodle arms; slow learner is ok)

In regards to flatulent, a colony with most duplicants flatulent and some infrastructure to collect the natural gas can be interesting - 20 duplicants would supply natural gas generator working non-stop. However, having only 10 or 20% of the colony flatulent would be annoying. Also, I am not sure if it is still the case, but flatulent ones used to fart through the atmo suits, which was making management of certain systems more annoying and you had to control the door access.

Finally, remember that duplicants' attributes are capped at 20, plus the traits and interests modifiers.

Originally posted by Hedning:

I don't know what actually increases str. To me it doesn't matter because I'm not going to give them pointless mopping errands just to level it faster. In any case they level it fast enough.

I think you might be right with mopping.

I am at over 2000 cycles and my starting duplicants have 11, 11 and 16 strength (and that's after investing in supply and tidying, giving +8 strength in total).

Yes but you only need the first suit wearing skill tier for atmo suits. You dont need research tier for this only supply. Though u need it for science increase.

Doesn't your skill tier build cost an overload of morale penalty??

I like the science attribute because it increases attribute learning for all attributes so i never take -3 science.

I do like small bladder as it returns some extra water into my system.

What im avoiding is allergies, flatulent, anemic, mouthbreather and narcoleptic.

But i do still not know if doing errands that apply to their personal interests increase attribute leveling speed, as i have read from people. If i know this i can decide to dump the dupes based on their personal interests.

I now have 72 dupes :P still need to get down to like 20 lol.

[Hedning]

It's not worth taking an extra trip all the way to the bathroom in the middle of a work shift just for 6.7kg of water.

Originally posted by Kyana:

if doing errands that apply to their personal interests increase attribute leveling speed, as i have read from people.

I think they or you might be confusing it with the previous system that had you learn the job, and if they had interest in it it would go twice as fast. There is no x2 on attributes from interests as far as I know.

[Jarcionek]

Originally posted by Kyana:

Yes but you only need the first suit wearing skill tier for atmo suits. You dont need research tier for this only supply.

Yes, that's what I do. As you can see from my screenshot, I have only two duplicants with higher level suit wearing - I have two automated rockets.

Originally posted by Kyana:

Doesn't your skill tier build cost an overload of morale penalty??

What do you mean? That I have invested too many skill points? As you can see, my duplicants have 40-50 morale and no more than 44 expectation. I have a dozen massage tables, but they are not used since I feed them frost burgers only. Highest stress is 4% at the moment.

Originally posted by Kyana:

I like the science attribute because it increases attribute learning for all attributes so i never take -3 science.

I avoid slow learner but I don't consider it an "absolute no". If a dupe had 3 nice positive traits, I would take them.

Originally posted by Kyana:

I do like small bladder as it returns some extra water into my system.

I have 24 kg/s water production from all geysers and vents. And I need water only for oxygen. Running to the toilet more often (and hence working less) is not worth it.

Originally posted by Kyana:

What im avoiding is allergies, flatulent, anemic, mouthbreather and narcoleptic.

Oh, forgot about allergies. Yes, that's an "absolute no" for me. Although there is a medicine apparently preventing the bad reaction.

Originally posted by Kyana:

But i do still not know if doing errands that apply to their personal interests increase attribute leveling speed, as i have read from people. If i know this i can decide to dump the dupes based on their personal interests.

I don't think so. I am just looking at my first 3 duplicants:

• Nails has interest in digging only (so +7) and has superduperhard digging (so +6) and her excavation is 28, which means that the base value is 15.
  
• Rowan has no interest in digging and has superduperhard digging (+6) and his excavation is 24, so the base value is 18.
  
• Frankie has no interest in digging and has superduperhard digging (+6) and his excavation is 20, so the base value is 14.

If interests were speeding up the learning of related skills, I would expect Nails to have higher excavation. Of course the margin error in this case is pretty large, but I cannot find a duplicant that would have higher than 15-16 base value of excavation. And I dug to every part of the map.

[Kyana]

The interest in one thing doest mean anything. I had a dupe with 7 cooking and 3 of some other (atletics or so), and his only interest was digging :P. He had 0 excavation attribute points. He did have the "pacifist" trait, so he could not do attacking errands but still had the hearts on the skill tiers for digging itsself. This was my weirdest dupe :P

And the excavation leveling slows down the higher it gets, and depends on how much dig errands the dupe does + science attributes.

Leveling from 0 to 1 excavation is faster than from 9 to 10 excavation and even more when it is a higher level. This is true for all other attributes.

Leveling depends on the science attribute for learning, and the amount of errands related to the attribute the dupe performs. A dupe with digging that is just cooking all the time doesnt get the same speed of leveling excavation than a dupe that is digging all the time.

Also i edited my post. You should actually learn research skill tiers for all dupes because it increases their learning speed for other attributes during errands.. (10 science is 2 times faster attribute gaining).

I am going to delete all dupes that are unable to learn research skill tiers. Then im going to spawn new dupes with high science, and interests in research and another interest which is needed for their specialization, except for ranching which seems to be the only attribute that will not level unless you hug eggs.....