leveling construction skill?

[snuggleform]

1) is there any way to check progress on a specific skill (not general skill points that you assign, but things like construction, athletics, cuisine etc).

2) does it seem slow to anyone to level up construction skill? I have a fast learner builder with +7 construction as her only interest, and she is the only one allowed to build and has been doing so for the first 30 days of my colony and she hasn't raised even 1 point in construction in all that time building things

[zOldBulldog]

Not sure about construction, but leveling skills is an area that needs some dev attention. Ranching seems to have a similar problem.

I think the issue is that dupes are only getting recognized for some of the activities related to their specialty, and in some specialties the task they get recognized for is fairly infrequent.

[snuggleform]

I was reading some past information and one theory is that you get exp based on time spent on the task; therefore the higher the skill level you have, the slower you level up because you spend less time on the task.

That appears to fit what I noticed in a different colony, with a low level construction guy getting more skill ups than my higher skilled one.

For reference, my agriculture +7 with fast learning, finally picked up 1 skill point of agriculture after 32 days where she was the only one doing farming (and mind you there's a "burn-in" time where I didn't even have crops to tend to), and while that does feel slow at least it's going somewhere. My construction girl isn't going anywhere with her skill.

I'm glad to hear that I'm not totally crazy and that there is something off about leveling skills.

Operating, athletics, and science all seem to progress at a reasonable pace to me, like once every 10 cycles or so they seem to roughly get 1 point in those areas.

[The Tempted Man]

1) yes, with mods, in vanilla game there's no such thing

ONI is a grind game, so yes, even after 200 cycles you will get to maybe level 15-20, tops.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by The Tempted Man:

1) yes, with mods, in vanilla game there's no such thing

ONI is a grind game, so yes, even after 200 cycles you will get to maybe level 15-20, tops.

But doesn't construction seem unusually slow? I gave examples of the other skills, where a lot of them seem to level up every 10-20 cycles and I'm further into the game now and still haven't seen construction level up even 1 point in 40 cycles now, with a fast learner...

[Hedning]

A dupe can stand a full work shift at the science station. However construction jobs are more spread out. Naturally a dupe running between construction jobs will level construction slower than a dupe standing still in front of a research station all day. If you want your dupes to construct faster in the beginning you should spend some skill points on that. The game is balanced around +6 from the 3 levels being significant.

Ranching is different. They don't get ranching skills from the actual animal tending which means they have very few opportunities to get ranching skill at all. Until they fix this a +7 starting skill is very valuable.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by Hedning:

A dupe can stand a full work shift at the science station. However construction jobs are more spread out. Naturally a dupe running between construction jobs will level construction slower than a dupe standing still in front of a research station all day. If you want your dupes to construct faster in the beginning you should spend some skill points on that. The game is balanced around +6 from the 3 levels being significant.

Ranching is different. They don't get ranching skills from the actual animal tending which means they have very few opportunities to get ranching skill at all. Until they fix this a +7 starting skill is very valuable.

But you're missing the fact that I've only let the one dupe do ALL the construction jobs. I'm currently at cycle 50 and haven't seen her level even 1 point, and she's a fast learner.

Doesn't that seem off to you?

I don't expect leveling construction to be at the same rate as science, but I am pointing out how ridiculously slow it appears to be based on funneling all construction jobs in a 50 cycle period and not seeing a single point increase, on a fast learner.

Doesn't that seem off to you?

[Hedning]

I can't comment on your dupes because I don't know what they are doing. But know that 10 is a 100% increase, which obviously is a lot. +6 is supposed to be significant at a tier 3 skill.

One of my starting dupes have 18 construction (8 of which are from using skill points) at around cycle 350, so that's an average of 1 point per 35 cycles. Not significantly different from you. I don't have dedicated builders though, but maybe this dupe was still spending more time constructing.

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by Hedning:

I can't comment on your dupes because I don't know what they are doing. But know that 10 is a 100% increase, which obviously is a lot. +6 is supposed to be significant at a tier 3 skill.

One of my starting dupes have 18 construction (8 of which are from using skill points) at around cycle 350, so that's an average of 1 point per 35 cycles. Not significantly different from you. I don't have dedicated builders though, but maybe this dupe was still spending more time constructing.

It's a simple enough test; start a new colony, and roll one of them as a +7 construction with fast learner. Disable everyone else on building, and only let this one dupe do construction. Go about normally on the starting asteroid, constantly digging/expanding/building things as needed.

I have +0 development in construction after 52 cycles, and I don't know when this drought will end. I can't understand how this can be. Literally every construction job is funneled to this one dupe.

I would say that yes, 1 point every 35 cycles is in fact significantly different than me. I'm above 50 cycles and I haven't even gotten 1 point. If I were roughly 35-45 cycles in and got 1 point then I'd say at least our experiences agree, but it's pretty far off at this point especially considering I have a 100% dedicated builder. Even if it wre 1 in 35 cycles, I would say that feels a little slow. I definitely feel agriculture should be faster too, it took about 35 cycles to get my first point but at least I got a point.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by wsc150:

It's a simple enough test .... Go about normally

It's not a simple test. In fact it is an impossible test. What is normal is different for different players. The guy above called his game a grind, which is the polar opposite of what my games are. Maybe he's building and deconstructing things over and over to increase construction skill. That's a grind. That's not something I do but by grinding his dupes would get the skill much faster than mine.

Maybe you build 15 farm tiles and stick with 3 dupes. Maybe you spend most of the time digging. Maybe you sweep all the debris. Maybe you simply have more downtime. There's plenty of things that would make your dupe level slower than my dupe.

[snuggleform]

It's simpler than you think, just go ahead and try it. I rejected maybe 3 or 4 dupes, I have 11 dupes at cycle 50. I'm not doing anything very tricky. I had this one dupe do all the buliding, tiles, etc. I have about 30-40 mealwood planter boxes, 12'ish cots, and I've been digging at every opportunity.

it's easy to try to hide behind statistical noise as an excuse, but where is an effect size this large there is something fundamentally wrong. You're throwing up your hands way too early.


There has to be some reason why construction is this ridiculously slow compared to rate of the other skills. It's not even funny how off it is. I would argue that even your experience shows how slow it is - one ponit in 35 cycles? If you take my data, it's even worse, not even 1 point in 52 cycles, with a dedicated builder. Don't blow me off.

It's not like we're 10000 cycles in and a gazillion things could have gone off at this point. It's a very constrained specific scenario I gave you - by cycle 52, I have 1 dupe from the beginning who has done all the contruction work. I provided some more details above that may be relevant. If you look at that and say constructoin is fine I don't nkow what to say, your sense is just off then.

There is something wrong. You can't just wave your hands and say it can't be tested and can't be felt.

You guys have already pointed out that ranching is busted/bugged, so maybe construction is also busted?

[Hedning]

I have played games that I have played in a way that is normal to me, and I'm pretty sure I have got a skill point faster than 50 cycles. Like I don't think the dupe I mentioned gained all their 10 pts after cycle 50. I don't feel like playing 50 cycles attempting to follow your description of what you do just to see how much construction skill I get. It wouldn't even be a scientific test so even if I were to waste my time playing 50 cycles just to test some random thing the result wouldn't be accurate to your situation.

You could go to your colony summary and list how much you have constructed in total. That would be a much faster test having one dupe construct all that in a creative world with debug speed.

But even then I don't know if your dupe actually haven't gained any skill point. Maybe you misread the info box. You wouldn't be the first. And it is really true that one dupe did all that? Have you actually forbidden construction as default from the beginning? That's a very strange and unusual thing to do.

[snuggleform]

Yes I forbade everyone from constructing except that one dupe, form the beginning. I'm offended that you find it strange, but my feelings aside I'm reporting to you quite accurately what I did without hyperbole and knowing full well what I did. I wanted to get a super constructor. I also have one exclusive researcher, and one exclusive farmer, and one exclusive artist, and one exclusive cook. There's nothing abnormal about it. That's why I'm posting at all, because I found that to be strange that I got 0 skill points in over 50 cycles. I said literally and I mean it.

In that time frame my farmer has gone up 1 point, which is slow mind you and I'm not happy about it but at least it's going up. My reseaecher has gone up 4 points, that's to be expected given the continous nature of research. The cook's gone up 3 points. The artist has gone up 0 because I haven't done art yet so that's irrelevant.

I'll go look for the constructed stats when I have time. Can you tell me where to look for it?

I have gotten 1 point in fewer cycles than 50 on construction, but this was with level 0 constructors. Like I've mentioned previously in this thread, the working theory people have is that you get exp based on time spent doing tasks, not number of tasks done. Thus my level 7 builder gets very little exp because she's spending little time relative to a level 0 builder on building tasks.

Either way, I think there's something very wrong here that a level 7 builder with fast learning has gotten 0 construction points in over 50 cycles of being the literal exclusive builder of the colony. I don't know why you continue to dismiss this. Like I said - you were the one who pointed out that there's something weird with ranching - apply the same testing you did to come to that conclusion with building, you don't even have to pay attention to my nicely laid out test you can use whatever logic/tests you used to reach the conclusion that ranching is bugged.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by wsc150:

I'll go look for the constructed stats when I have time. Can you tell me where to look for it?

Colony summary is on the same screen as your achievements. You can click it from the esc menu where you save, load and quit the game.

I know ranching is broken, it has always been for everyone. It's probably because it works differently: Grooming speed is not increased by the skill because it is a fixed animation. Instead the time it lasts is increased by the skill. Construction on the other hand works. I have always gained construction skill. There's no reason your game should work different from mine.

[snuggleform]

Aite here we go, screenshots

first one number of buildings

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1875578993

2nd one shows priority list which hasn't been changed since day 1, shows the researcher. As I reported earlier, the researcher has gained 4 skillpoints since day 1 (he started at level 7 I rerolled him to be such)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1875579906

3rd one shows my builder, who suspiciously hsn't gotten a skill up in construction since the colony start (baseline 7, the +2 is clearly from me investing the skillpoint, but there are NO NATURAL LEVEL ups which is the whole point)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1875579850

4th one shows my farmer, who did develop once, also a fast learner +7 like the other dupes

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1875579801

[snuggleform]

Like I said my best theory is that constructoin doesn't go up because a high level constructor gets less exp because they spend less time on construction. Do you have a better theory toe explain what's going on here?

I'm not saying that all constructors never gain skillpoints. I'm saying that my level 7 fast learner never did for 50 cycles despite being the exclusive one. I have gained skillpoints in construction with level 0 or 1 builders before, but even then I remember it being painfully slow.

Now that the evidence is in front of you will you stop dismissing my claims?

it's out of whack, like ranching is, stop denying it please.