Ok, serious question about the appeal of these types of games.

[HobbyCathartic]

So, looking at the tag visual novel I see there are around 34 pages of games... This astounds me.

What is the appeal of this genre? I've never played one and don't ever see myself playing them.

Are they just a way of sharing fiction that people have written? The turnover seems quite quick as well with many novels have sequels. Are they similar to a choose your own adventure?

I'd love any honest feedback you could share. Thank you.

[Klolita]

"These kind of games" You mean GAY GAMES? Ya got a problem with GAY GAMES buddy?

[animecat6]

I like it because it's another form of story telling. Books and Cinema are great but sometime you want to experience something new. Also not all of them are gay games. And some of these games has amazing writing and stories to tell.

[DairunCates]

I assume you mean Visual Novels unlike the person above me. It's a complicated thing to explain, but good visual novels somewhat bridge the gap between a movie and a novel proper. You get just enough visuals and audio feedback to help with immersion without just completely destroying your own imagination, but you get the long form character development of a proper novel. Add in that most of these actually have a bit of control over the narrative and you have essentially a much more polished grown up version of a Choose Your Own Adventure novel.

Of course, that's going to vary by novel. Some of the more expensive ones on Steam (and some of the cheaper ones too) are more polished than others. Some have a lot of CG's (images specific to a scene that headshot sprites can't portray) and voice-acting and overall better music. Some are... Well. Some are 2 hours of fanservice to put it bluntly.

...And that's where you get the other bit of appeal. Some of these games either contain nudity after a small patch is applied or even contain nudity on steam as steam is relaxing their stance on sexual content and nudity in games that AREN'T The Witcher. So, some people really do just browse the genre for bare boobs, but that doesn't represent the whole of the genre.

Also, it's worth noting that a sub-genre of VN's are called Kinetic Novels and don't contain any choices whatsoever. These usually up the visual and musical effects to compensate though, as you no longer need to focus on choices and branching narrative. It makes it simpler to develop so you can focus on the good bits.

Me personally? I'm into the genre because they I studied up to a Master's Degree in game design, but I'm effectively a writer by trade. So, in some way, the developers of these games are my people.

Even if I didn't have that, I'd still probably read them though. You see, my first real VN was Analogue: A Hate Story (Which can frequently be found on sale on steam for an insultingly low $2.50). The experience of that game was something beautiful, and I think it genuinely pushes the boundaries of story-telling in the medium. It covers horrible and violent topics about sexism towards women under Korean Confuscianism and how it still applies today and even sometimes to the Western world, and it tells it in this fascinating series of journal entries and government documents that you can read in a bunch of different orders (and yet it always keeps the plot fairly on track). It has an emotional gripping finale and it genuinely made me feel like I was a space Archaeologist gathering the logs of this lost ship. Humourously enough, I don't know a single person that's played the game and hasn't said, "Jesus. I need a cup of tea/coffee" and made one in the middle of the game. It gets you THAT MUCH into character.

There's also, To The Moon, which I found out about by reading a Top 10 Saddest Games Ever list. It was number 1. That one is more like a genuine movie in sprite form though. That one is also incredibly sad as it deals with relationships with disabilities and how love eventually conquers over such adversity. It doesn't exactly hurt that the EXCELLENT composer Laura Shigihara (who did the entire Plants vs. Zombies soundtrack including the infamous ending theme) did the entire soundtrack.

And that's the great part. VN's are allowing developers to cover non-traditional topics that just don't work in regular form video games, but with the advantages of Video Games such as video, audio, and interactivty. You really do sometimes get a better emotional connection with the characters this way.

But yeah. Mileage is going to vary, but some of these are INCREDIBLY polished products that contain a shocking bit more control than you think. Clannad (which is 50 bucks on steam but is frequently 50% off) has an estimated somewhere between 80-200 hours of read time depending on how much of a speed reader you are. That's not counting the 2 side games. For an industry that frequently covers romance as a thing you win by having enough stat points to get a brief sex scene and little more nuance than that, that can scratch a lot of itches that aren't currently being scratched.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

[Madhippy]

A Story driven "game" which mechanics are so simple they literally cannot be broken. A VN is better described as a "Choose Your Own Adventure Book". It has the appeal that the story plays out your way. It also makes a game very replayable.
Its like a TellTale game but without the quicktime or moving that really cements a storyline so it is none flexible and your choices don't matter.
In these games choices matter for the most part a few games aside.

[HobbyCathartic]

Awesome, thank you for the awesome answers.

I see a couple are free, I might try one out and see for myself. I'm a big fan of reading and have had a few choose your adventures.

[HobbyCathartic]

Originally posted by Klolita:

"These kind of games" You mean GAY GAMES? Ya got a problem with GAY GAMES buddy?

Buddy? BUDDY? Are you assuming my gender?

[HobbyCathartic]

Originally posted by DairunCates:

I assume you mean Visual Novels unlike the person above me. It's a complicated thing to explain, but good visual novels somewhat bridge the gap between a movie and a novel proper. You get just enough visuals and audio feedback to help with immersion without just completely destroying your own imagination, but you get the long form character development of a proper novel. Add in that most of these actually have a bit of control over the narrative and you have essentially a much more polished grown up version of a Choose Your Own Adventure novel.

Of course, that's going to vary by novel. Some of the more expensive ones on Steam (and some of the cheaper ones too) are more polished than others. Some have a lot of CG's (images specific to a scene that headshot sprites can't portray) and voice-acting and overall better music. Some are... Well. Some are 2 hours of fanservice to put it bluntly.

...And that's where you get the other bit of appeal. Some of these games either contain nudity after a small patch is applied or even contain nudity on steam as steam is relaxing their stance on sexual content and nudity in games that AREN'T The Witcher. So, some people really do just browse the genre for bare boobs, but that doesn't represent the whole of the genre.

Also, it's worth noting that a sub-genre of VN's are called Kinetic Novels and don't contain any choices whatsoever. These usually up the visual and musical effects to compensate though, as you no longer need to focus on choices and branching narrative. It makes it simpler to develop so you can focus on the good bits.

Me personally? I'm into the genre because they I studied up to a Master's Degree in game design, but I'm effectively a writer by trade. So, in some way, the developers of these games are my people.

Even if I didn't have that, I'd still probably read them though. You see, my first real VN was Analogue: A Hate Story (Which can frequently be found on sale on steam for an insultingly low $2.50). The experience of that game was something beautiful, and I think it genuinely pushes the boundaries of story-telling in the medium. It covers horrible and violent topics about sexism towards women under Korean Confuscianism and how it still applies today and even sometimes to the Western world, and it tells it in this fascinating series of journal entries and government documents that you can read in a bunch of different orders (and yet it always keeps the plot fairly on track). It has an emotional gripping finale and it genuinely made me feel like I was a space Archaeologist gathering the logs of this lost ship. Humourously enough, I don't know a single person that's played the game and hasn't said, "Jesus. I need a cup of tea/coffee" and made one in the middle of the game. It gets you THAT MUCH into character.

There's also, To The Moon, which I found out about by reading a Top 10 Saddest Games Ever list. It was number 1. That one is more like a genuine movie in sprite form though. That one is also incredibly sad as it deals with relationships with disabilities and how love eventually conquers over such adversity. It doesn't exactly hurt that the EXCELLENT composer Laura Shigihara (who did the entire Plants vs. Zombies soundtrack including the infamous ending theme) did the entire soundtrack.

And that's the great part. VN's are allowing developers to cover non-traditional topics that just don't work in regular form video games, but with the advantages of Video Games such as video, audio, and interactivty. You really do sometimes get a better emotional connection with the characters this way.

But yeah. Mileage is going to vary, but some of these are INCREDIBLY polished products that contain a shocking bit more control than you think. Clannad (which is 50 bucks on steam but is frequently 50% off) has an estimated somewhere between 80-200 hours of read time depending on how much of a speed reader you are. That's not counting the 2 side games. For an industry that frequently covers romance as a thing you win by having enough stat points to get a brief sex scene and little more nuance than that, that can scratch a lot of itches that aren't currently being scratched.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Wow, I never knew those stories were that involved. I thought it more of a beginning to end experience.

I have played sorcery, where you roll dice, make choices and proceed to various pages. Are there mechanics in play like the "Sorcery" series?

[DairunCates]

Originally posted by Wu Ziheng:

Awesome, thank you for the awesome answers.

I see a couple are free, I might try one out and see for myself. I'm a big fan of reading and have had a few choose your adventures.

I'd definitely read the reviews on each. There's some real stinkers in the free sector (Although most of the REAL stinkers are in the 1-3 dollar range), but, depending on your tastes, there's some really good ones out there too.

For instance, Regeria Hope is a female take on the Phoenix Wright series that's offering up its first episode for free. Haven't gotten to play it yet, but it looks promising. The Sad Story of Emmeline Burns has been on my personal reading list too.

You might also consider going off site and looking at the free stuff for Sake Visual (http://www.sakevisual.com/) and Christina Love's (http://loveconquersallgam.es/) sites as I can attest to the general quality of their stuff and they have several free titles of varying length.

Hopefully, you find something you like.

EDIT:

Originally posted by Wu Ziheng:

Wow, I never knew those stories were that involved. I thought it more of a beginning to end experience.

I have played sorcery, where you roll dice, make choices and proceed to various pages. Are there mechanics in play like the "Sorcery" series?

It depends heavily on the novel. Some (most even) are incredibly straightforward with a few branches here and there that effect the overall ending. Others though can indeed play more like an Old-school RPG with stats and rolls. I believe Magical Diary uses background dice rolls for all of its intersecting points. Hate Plus and Analogue are interesting in that the only choices you REALLY make are the order to read the game in (and a couple of things with the two AIs), but it's an effective choice none the less.

Save the Queen is also one that has a lot of RPG stats and branches therein. You have to get a princess to survive her first year as Queen... It's the Dark Souls of visual novels, but there's a million ways to win. Also, Hanako games has another VN called Date Warp that apparently gets really twisted in its plot (The separate plot arcs eventually connect into each other).

Also, I haven't started it yet, but I hear Cinders effectively has around 150 endings based around 4 basic endings and their variations.

Then there's things like Recettear or My Organic Garden that are like 90% actual game and 10% VN. Sekai Project has a few hybrid games like that coming out next year.

Professor Layton is similarly considered a VN despite being 90% Puzzle game.

So yeah. There's a lot of variety in how they approach choice here. If you do your research, you can probably find something you like.

[squishyfishy]

for visual novels, it's just like an action game with lots of story/plot, but without the action. although there have been several visual novels that include its own action, or action games that use the presentation of visual novels for its story content. but mostly it's being able to respond in a way that may or may not affect the story. it's like Heavy Rain or Until Dawn, but with 2d images and still backgrounds.


beyond this line is just random junk (just skip it)
----------------------------------------------------
like the mass flood of rpg maker games, it doesn't make sense to me how they can be so popular using an overdone game style. some people just prefer it this way rather than playing the most graphics intense games possible. whether it reminds them of the past, playing it like that leaves more to their imagination, or maybe they're just in it for the story. whatever reason

i'm biased towards them because i grew up on old rpgs and it's been so clear that rpgs have evolved visually and mechanically in many ways, to the point that it feels pointless to go backwards outside of 2 reasons. 1) to relive the past and 2) because it's an easy step for beginners into making a game because of the variety and friendliness of retro rpg making programs.

when you take the definition of 'video game' it's very broad and lots of interpretation can go into what it consists of.
a movie and a book don't have any real interaction (unless it's a choose-your-own-adventure style book or a movie where the audenice gets to vote on what happens next). the difference would be.. with a video game you have direct interaction, whether it's making a character move/attack, a block disappear or slide into place, or choosing the next path in a story... through video.

video games in general (including visual novels) cater to many people with different types of video game fetishes.

[CLG]

who doesn't love gay little girls?

[Marusame]

Well visual novels will have voice acting, paths you can choose usually that changes things so its like an audiobook with visuals that you have some control over. And really its just short stories to read/llisten to and be invested in for a while. Its no different than asking why someone would read a gay/yuri manga or watch a yuri anime (i suggest an anime called Sakura Trick for good cute yuri)

While sometimes these will have sex scenes which uncensored (via patches since steam sucks) will be hot, they still are there only after longs stretches of story and setup and they are often a payoff for that characters hard work.

[DairunCates]

Originally posted by fishmarketVendor:

for visual novels, it's just like an action game with lots of story/plot, but without the action. although there have been several visual novels that include its own action, or action games that use the presentation of visual novels for its story content. but mostly it's being able to respond in a way that may or may not affect the story. it's like Heavy Rain or Until Dawn, but with 2d images and still backgrounds.


beyond this line is just random junk (just skip it)
----------------------------------------------------
like the mass flood of rpg maker games, it doesn't make sense to me how they can be so popular using an overdone game style. some people just prefer it this way rather than playing the most graphics intense games possible. whether it reminds them of the past, playing it like that leaves more to their imagination, or maybe they're just in it for the story. whatever reason

i'm biased towards them because i grew up on old rpgs and it's been so clear that rpgs have evolved visually and mechanically in many ways, to the point that it feels pointless to go backwards outside of 2 reasons. 1) to relive the past and 2) because it's an easy step for beginners into making a game because of the variety and friendliness of retro rpg making programs.

when you take the definition of 'video game' it's very broad and lots of interpretation can go into what it consists of.
a movie and a book don't have any real interaction (unless it's a choose-your-own-adventure style book or a movie where the audenice gets to vote on what happens next). the difference would be.. with a video game you have direct interaction, whether it's making a character move/attack, a block disappear or slide into place, or choosing the next path in a story... through video.

video games in general (including visual novels) cater to many people with different types of video game fetishes.

In all fairness, I think the fact that your higher budget examples includes Heavy Rain says a lot for why people prefer the cleaner simpler art style ones sometimes. Heavy Rain, despite its conceit, actually had very little meaningful choices that actually changed the plot in it and Heavy Rain was only about 6 hours long.

As a matter of fact, David Cage has famously said he only wanted people to play the game once for the proper narrative experience, but it becomes obvious on later playthroughs that the reason for this is because the narrative tends to fall apart when you realize things like 2 major characters can never die until the finale and that several QTEs do NOTHING when failed.

As much as I LOVED Until Dawn. It's a similar scenario. There's not ACTUALLY a lot of branching in how the story ends, and it's pretty short. The butterfly effect thing at the beginning is pretty much a lie. However, unlike Heavy Rain and the whole of Cage's work, I feel they displayed a good enough narrative to compensate.

So yeah. With the focus more heavy on the narrative and a book-like experience, you can usually get a much deeper story-telling experience and a longer one. Things like Heavy Rain tend to lose all momentum when they do slice of life scenes, but they're some of the best bits of some good Visual Novels. If you put too much focus into developing a AAA graphics engine for your narrative game, you don't leave enough budget for narrative, and there's basically just not enough consumer interest in a story game with meaningful choices instead of a couple of dialogue boxes in Mass Effect to warrant giving it the budget it would need.

Also, there's some awesome 20 hour VNs on Steam that cost 10 bucks. So, you know, that helps too. Because you'd need a pretty substantial story game to compete with that.

And Aesthetic very much DOES matter. Plenty of games with significantly weaker graphics engines have outperformed games with meaty engines, but nothing special in their graphics. There's a reason cell-shading was so big in games in the early 00's. So yeah. The aesthetic here is definitely one of the other draws.

[Orange]

Steam has really been flooded with shovelware EVNs lately, mostly as an attempt to piggyback off of the success of Nekopara and the Sakura series. Not that this is one of them, but you won't really get a good impression of the genre just browsing through releases on Steam, since only a handful of titles that are actually good have been released on here.

[DairunCates]

Originally posted by Orange:

Steam has really been flooded with shovelware EVNs lately, mostly as an attempt to piggyback off of the success of Nekopara and the Sakura series. Not that this is one of them, but you won't really get a good impression of the genre just browsing through releases on Steam, since only a handful of titles that are actually good have been released on here.

Well, in all fairness, I'd consider the Sakura franchise kinda shovelware too, but hey. It got enough attention to the genre that the good stuff could get its time. So, I'm not ENTIRELY complaining.

Nekopara kinda creeps me out, but at least there seems to have been a lot of effort in it.

Still, if you bother to read reviews, the free to play stuff actually has some of the better genre examples on the site. That's mostly because trash like Burokku Girls still wants to make money while the people doing Free novels just really want to tell a story.

[nikkuEXE]

Originally posted by fishmarketVendor:

With the focus more heavy on the narrative and a book-like experience, you can usually get a much deeper story-telling experience and a longer one. Things like Heavy Rain tend to lose all momentum when they do slice of life scenes, but they're some of the best bits of some good Visual Novels. If you put too much focus into developing a AAA graphics engine for your narrative game, you don't leave enough budget for narrative, and there's basically just not enough consumer interest in a story game with meaningful choices instead of a couple of dialogue boxes in Mass Effect to warrant giving it the budget it would need.

Also, there's some awesome 20 hour VNs on Steam that cost 10 bucks. So, you know, that helps too. Because you'd need a pretty substantial story game to compete with that.

And Aesthetic very much DOES matter. Plenty of games with significantly weaker graphics engines have outperformed games with meaty engines, but nothing special in their graphics. There's a reason cell-shading was so big in games in the early 00's. So yeah. The aesthetic here is definitely one of the other draws.

Very true. Visual novels put the story into the forefront instead of relying heavily on visuals or gameplay mechanics to entertain. From a developer view, VNs require extra care to ensure the translation is more than just accurate -- it has to be enjoyable to read. For medium to long VNs this can become a challenge since playtesting is essentialy proofreading a novel with branching paths. If one story route from Flowers: -Le volume sur printemps- was published as a paperback, it would be over 600 pages long, and that's without the descriptive filler sentences a standard novel must use to paint each scene.