Hands?

[Isaac]

I need hands, like first person hands. I don't like the controller layout or nothing at all, it totally ruins the immersion of the game.

That's why I play more games like Onward and Pavlov for this feature.

Really, I'm being serious. It might seem like a small difference, but it really feels a lot more immersive.

This and some WW2 weapons and my life would be complete.

[medac173]

in the faq this is what it says pretty sure you will be dissapointed
Will you be adding animated hands?
- No. Due to controller geometry there is no way to have many smaller objects placed 'correctly' such that they could be realistically held by a posed hand, while still having them placed relative to firearms in a way that controllers don't smash into each other.

[Isaac]

Originally posted by boris:

in the faq this is what it says pretty sure you will be dissapointed
Will you be adding animated hands?
- No. Due to controller geometry there is no way to have many smaller objects placed 'correctly' such that they could be realistically held by a posed hand, while still having them placed relative to firearms in a way that controllers don't smash into each other.

That's retarded, he's just making excuses to not do much work. And it could be an option to change if people are dumb enough to smash the controllers together. Explain why Pavlov does the animated hands so well?

[Isaac]

I know that might seem like I'm being hard on the developer. I still think that his work is very impressive and how he's just doing by himself is impressive. He isn't lazy, I'm just saying that those are some lame excuses to add a much needed feature in the game.

[medac173]

well i do agree with you on the option but its the angle of the controller

[[RUST]Grumplestiltskin]

I would have explained it in greater detail, but because you decided to respond to my FAQ explanation with an exclamation and an accusation of it being 'excuses' when this game has gotten, literally _46_ content updates, you don't get a more complete explanation. I will spend the 15 to 20 minutes that a more in depth technical explanation would take to write instead on working on the game. I feel no obligation to respond in these instances when someone can't express a base-line of kindness.

[Isaac]

Originally posted by RUSTGrumplestiltskin:

I would have explained it in greater detail, but because you decided to respond to my FAQ explanation with an exclamation and an accusation of it being 'excuses' when this game has gotten, literally _46_ content updates, you don't get a more complete explanation. I will spend the 15 to 20 minutes that a more in depth technical explanation would take to write instead on working on the game. I feel no obligation to respond in these instances when someone can't express a base-line of kindness.

Dude I love your game, I'm just wondering why you can't add hands like all the other VR games.

[[RUST]Grumplestiltskin]

There are a number of reasons that when put together make it something that would be very time consuming, and very expensive because of the volume of asset production needed.

1. Objects in H3 can be incredibly small, and need to be placed into other objects in close proximity to another hand. An example is chambering a round into a specific revolver cylinder, loading some of the smaller magazines, etc. Because of the shape and size of the controllers, there is no 'pose' that a hand can be in, and still be placed _where_ your hand is, holding certain objects, and still be able to perform certain actions with them. This is _why_ small objects like cartridges are 'floated' fairly far out in front of where your actual hand is, and why the 'interaction sphere' is as well.

2. There are already over 100 firearms in the game, magazines for each, many melee weapons, dozens of attachments and dozens of miscellaneous objects. Further, there are sub-interactions (bolt handles, stocks, etc.) of those weapons. Moreover, many things like bolt handles would need to be grabbed from different angles/poses based on which hand was grabbing them to make visual sense.

Authoring 'hand poses' where it actually looked like you the player was _holding_ those objects (not just some crappy generic pose), would cost six-figures of an animators time. I am not kidding, I have costed these things out in past contract projects, and I have a decade of experience doing so. This is not even counting all of my re-implementation time.

3. Frankly, if I were to do a 'realistic' hand, I would, bare minimum, want at least two shape options to better represent gender difference in size/thickness of fingers, and if skin tone was visible, have a bunch of options for it. To not do this and do the 'usual' thing that is '♥♥♥♥ it, just white dude hands', is worse than no hands as far as I'm concerned.

4. The entire game has been built around a 'fixed' interaction zone location (the sphere). Doing hands well would involve re-engineering almost every interactive object in the game to respond to the appropriate 'place' on the hand. I.E. palm-grabbing large things, finger-grabbing small things (as I need the precision no matter what due to how small things can be in H3).

5. (opinion here) VR Hands ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ suck. They don't move like your hands. They don't feel like they're your hands. I'm sorry, but I've been in VR non-stop for the past two years, and after that amount of time they feel just as artificial/abstract as a controller model. Until we have some sort of controller/glove that _actually_ tracks the _real_ position of all of the player's fingers, I'm flatly not interested in the concept.

There's a bunch of other minutae, but this should get the point across. Putting hands in H3 at this point would be an incredibly expensive, several month diversion that also raises the implementation complexity of every new object I add to the game. It's not a priority of mine, and it is _never_ going to be a priority of mine as far as H3 is concerned.


*edit* This is the one you get (in terms of acting rude and still getting a response from me.) If I post a reason for something in an FAQ, or on this forum, it is a thought out reason backed by over a decade of experience in this medium, in personal and commercial work. I know what I'm doing, and bluntly, given the complexity of the game delivered thus far, I expect the benefit of the doubt, not "oh that's just excuses". You have no idea how grating it has gotten, getting everyone's back-seat devving and know-nothing comments on 'how easy' something is, from people who have no clue. These are my terms if you want to ever get another response from me on a topic.

[Galm 1]

Originally posted by IsaacThePooper:

Originally posted by boris:

in the faq this is what it says pretty sure you will be dissapointed
Will you be adding animated hands?
- No. Due to controller geometry there is no way to have many smaller objects placed 'correctly' such that they could be realistically held by a posed hand, while still having them placed relative to firearms in a way that controllers don't smash into each other.

That's retarded, he's just making excuses to not do much work. And it could be an option to change if people are dumb enough to smash the controllers together. Explain why Pavlov does the animated hands so well?

Dude, get bent
By all means, go ahead and program the hands yourself and send them to him.

[[RUST]Grumplestiltskin]

I appreciate the support Yeet, but there's no need to pile on here. The issue has been explained and settled.

[Isaac]

Originally posted by RUSTGrumplestiltskin:

I appreciate the support Yeet, but there's no need to pile on here. The issue has been explained and settled.

Yes, thanks for the detailed response. Now I understand. Sorry for my ignorant ass.

[grimofdoom]

I would at least like an option to switch out from the oculus controller model to other cooler or more interesting ones. Maybe some robot arm stump, or alien tenticle or something- just an extra spice.

And the hand model problems make 100% why they can't be used, right now.

[medac173]

Originally posted by grimofdoom:

I would at least like an option to switch out from the oculus controller model to other cooler or more interesting ones. Maybe some robot arm stump, or alien tenticle or something- just an extra spice.

And the hand model problems make 100% why they can't be used, right now.

incredibly not likley because if they cant add hands they cant add that