30FPS?

[DAOWAce]

I immediately noticed something wrong with the mouse when I started up the game. Felt very skippy/sluggish.

Loaded up FRAPS and, oh, 30FPS.

Why is the framerate locked to 30FPS?

Sure, it's not an action game, but it still feels awful regardless.

Even worse, I think the mouse is updating at 15FPS. It looks and feels significantly worse than 30FPS should be. That, or I just forgot how bad 30FPS mouse control is..

By comparison, Paper's Please runs at 60FPS. Did not have any expectation that this game, heavily inspired by it, would be worse off.

Might still play it regardless, but this is definitely a letdown. I wish I knew this information before purchasing.

[Myura]

You have to read and click without even moving it most of the time. Who cares?

[DAOWAce]

Originally posted by Kaname:

Who cares?

Evidently me and a few other people if you even bothered to search for this info.

What's the point of your comment again?

[Shadow]

I'm as pro-60fps as they come, but considering this game only has minor animations, and in many aesthetic aspects pays homage to older Japanese-born visual novels, fussing about this seems hardly reasonable.

[~moep~]

Originally posted by Blind:

Why is the framerate locked to 30FPS?

Sure, it's not an action game..

would it change anything at all? as you wrote yourself, it's not an action game.
there is not even a need of 30FPS.
25FPS is enough for humans eye to show fluid motions, anything above that is just a waste of your GPU/CPU resources and/or an attempt to increase your electricity bill at the end of the month.
it contains neither pew pew nor any boom boom, at least not in the FPS'ish sense (FPS in terms of genre, not frames per second).
you mainly read texts and mix drinks, totally no need for 60FPS. ;)

but for the sake to give you a proper answer, i guess they've chosen 30FPS because it is actually 5 frames above the minimum neccessary framerate - and maybe also to mock up people with ridiclious expectations. :P
no offense, just a critical view about a question.

[pB]

The minigame, however, is running at 60FPS.

[Epithet Lost]

As far as I know it's cheaper to develop a game in 30 fps than in 60, and it's very difficult to change it to 60 fps after the game has been locked to 30. And as far as video game genres go visual novel is by far the least affected by frame rate. I won't say it's a good thing but I'm OK with it.

[DAOWAce]

Originally posted by moep:

25FPS is enough for humans eye to show fluid motions

No it's not.

1) Our eyes don't see in FPS.

2) Your example only applies to FILM. Film is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from video games, let alone any rendered content on a device that can process it. Film captures innate motion blur which is part of how we actually perceive things with our eyes in the real world. This is the sole reason why you can get away with 24 FPS in film. (and the reason why 24fps was picked is a different story entirely)

If a game had motion blur, you could get away with a lower framerate because the image wouldn't be so jarringly skippy. But rarely does any game have motion blur like that (Crysis as an example; I played that many years ago with a low framerate), and many people don't actually like the effect. Even still, lower framerate does significantly impact your input, causing input latency. 30FPS is 33.3ms of input latency. 60FPS is 16.6ms. That's a significant difference and wholly perceivable if you're the one playing it (this is without even including any from your input devices or monitor). It does not feel good if your framerate is low, regardless of the visual smoothness (or lack thereof) from any motion blur.

30FPS videos of games are watchable, because we're not playing it and suffering input lag. It will still look a bit skippy, but it's far far more tolerable than if you were playing. 60FPS videos still look a bit weird, but the smoothness resulting from them is an immense step up and provides much needed clarity in fast motion scenes (real life footage is improved, but to a lesser degree).

Originally posted by Seyfert QSR:

As far as I know it's cheaper to develop a game in 30 fps than in 60,

This is highly dependent on what game engine is being used.. and how it's being used.. and it's more 'work' than it is 'cost'.

For most, there is literally no difference designing for 30, 60 or variable framerate. The reason why this is a thing dates back to old consoles and NTSC vs PAL.. which isn't a thing anymore in modern times. Now, developers target a specific console and a specific framerate.. (which is sadly 30 due to low computing power of modern consoles) and because of this they design systems around operating at a specific framerate.. like physics, or worse; the entire tickrate of the game engine.

Properly developed games can run at a variable framerate without any impact to the game speed or physics systems. 200 FPS or 20 FPS, they run at the same speed. Ones designed for 30 or 60 at their core either speed up or slow down if the framerate is increased or decreased, respectively.. which is why you see bad slow down in older console games for the NES/SNES/Genesis/etc. when tons of things are on screen.

You can have 30FPS animations in a 60FPS game. It will still look the same (sans non-animation related things), but the input response will be so much more pleasant to the end user. The South Park games for example. The first one was 30; it felt bad. The second one is 60; it feels great and looks no different (aside from the non-animation related things as mentioned, like camera movement).

But, to talk specifically about this game.. or more accurately Game Maker, it is very much a chore to adjust the framerate after development has started, let alone develop pixel based games due to the way the engine works. See Hyperlight Drifter for an example. That game was created at 30FPS and after community outcry the developer spent months working to adjust it to 60FPS. It could've all been avoided if they set the target framerate to 60 before starting development.

Risk of Rain, Gods Will Be Watching, Hotline Miami, Savant Ascent, Valdis Story, Nidhogg, Katana Zero, Deadbolt, Gunpoint, Super Crate Box, Stealth Bastard, Momodora, Death's Gambit, Spelunky.. etc, all of these games are 60FPS. Hell, even Simply Solitaire by the creators of the engine itself is 60FPS.


Anyway, I know this rant/information dump won't change anything in regards to the game, but it will hopefully open the eyes of people who don't fully understand things. At least, I can hope.

[Smoker the White Hunter]

I 100% guarantee you, you would not notice if this game ran above 30 FPS. The only possible way is if you just sit there watching the customers blinking, but even then, why does it matter. Some people just like to complain

[Metadragon]

You dont need 180 FPS and hyper sensitivity for a Visual Novel.

[Kishnabe]

Visual Novel/Point and Click game don't need anything above 30 FPS....turn off fraps and you won't notice :)

[DAOWAce]

Originally posted by DAOWAce:

Anyway, I know this rant/information dump won't change anything in regards to the game, but it will hopefully open the eyes of people who don't fully understand things. At least, I can hope.

Nope, the ignorance keeps flooding in..

Originally posted by Kishnabe:

Visual Novel/Point and Click game don't need anything above 30 FPS....turn off fraps and you won't notice :)

1) I don't use FRAPS.
2) I don't need an FPS monitor to notice when the framerate drops. I've been gaming on PCs for over 20 years. I can notice a difference from 75 to 68 easily. 75 to 60 is extremely obvious. 45-50 FPS is my absolute tolerable limit to framerate, though some games I just can't have below 60 drops (mainly high speed competitive ones). I don't play 30 FPS games because of how terrible they feel to play, let alone look at, as I've explained plenty so far.

Originally posted by Smoker the White Hunter:

I 100% guarantee you, you would not notice if this game ran above 30 FPS. The only possible way is if you just sit there watching the customers blinking, but even then, why does it matter. Some people just like to complain

What part of the mouse control feeling terribly sluggish and skippy didn't you understand?


Anyway, unsubbing from topic; not reading any further responses. People are just too ignorant to understand.

Leaving this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJh9ut2hrc

[<Blank />]

I'm going to destroy you. Simply because.

1) It's a VN and you're crying about a 30fps lock for a game that has animations with two to like...ten at most frames.
2) Your OP was ridiculous as all ♥♥♥♥.

You can argue about eyes and all kinds of the bone stock things we've seen for thirty years on the internet and present no new information - you screwed yourself in the first post and nobody even bothered to rek you on it.

If you're such a great PC gamer, you'd be using mouse in hardware cursor mode, also Valhalla defaults to this since it essentially runs in a borderless window. You claiming the mouse is sluggish, is an outright fabrication.

Second, mouse cursors don't update using "Frames" so the idea it was "updating" at 15fps is outright ludicrus.

I ran a test, running Valhalla while moving my mouse on the desktop, in the game, and in a game running at 60 and then a game running at over 100 fps. The difference? Literally none.

Myth busted.

[Epithet Lost]

Originally posted by Shin:

I'm going to destroy you. Simply because.

1) It's a VN and you're crying about a 30fps lock for a game that has animations with two to like...ten at most frames.
2) Your OP was ridiculous as all ♥♥♥♥.

You can argue about eyes and all kinds of the bone stock things we've seen for thirty years on the internet and present no new information - you screwed yourself in the first post and nobody even bothered to rek you on it.

If you're such a great PC gamer, you'd be using mouse in hardware cursor mode, also Valhalla defaults to this since it essentially runs in a borderless window. You claiming the mouse is sluggish, is an outright fabrication.

Second, mouse cursors don't update using "Frames" so the idea it was "updating" at 15fps is outright ludicrus.

I ran a test, running Valhalla while moving my mouse on the desktop, in the game, and in a game running at 60 and then a game running at over 100 fps. The difference? Literally none.

Myth busted.

Please refrain from casually destroying people, this is a violence-free establishment. Besides, it can take a while to arrange an ambulance to be relayed now that the White Knights have been disbanded, and pouring alcohol on the wound can only do so much

[<Blank />]

Well, it won't do too much

It's probably not real alcohol ^^;;

Could ask for some of Jill's Absinthe, though...

[Epithet Lost]

Originally posted by Shin:

It's probably not real alcohol ^^;;

Could ask for some of Jill's Absinthe, though...

: Are you questioning the authenticity of my merchandise?