Build Slope needs to be increased.

[Holy Athena]

I mentioned this in my feedback thread, but this really just is a serious problem.

It's so janky and misleading. The game is hard enough to get into with how the lack of information, and figuring out how everything works, and what's best for what. Which is fine. But when you tank all your money into building and 80% of it goes towards building, deleting, and rebuilding, re loading saves, etc. to trying to figure out a way to build a damn train track up, around a 2 degree slope hill its absurd real quick.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/151262938630930183/635AE214C1AE02638A7DAA23F271F9287885A07E/

This is my example. The slope is gradual, simple. Shouldn't be a problem, or so you'd think visually. It's a gentle slope. Yet even this gives me the biggest middle finger to connect the two tracks. literally can't do it.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/151262938630937159/EB058FB10850BDE86CA8C3D350414404A5F41F5F/

This is my second example. The hill to the left, obvious you can't build up that, its too steep. You'd need to build around, or have a tunnel, but that gentle slope next to it at a much more gentle angle should be ok right? Nope, even that kiddy slope is far too much for trains apparently.

[saturn__7]

That's realistic, trains can only climb a gradual slope. You would need to build something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusio_spiral_viaduct

[neldot]

The slopes aren't so gradual as you could imagine only seeing them from an aerial view. Often we only see a little hill, but we are dealing with elevations of 6 - 8 meters in 100 meters of distance, that means a 6% / 8% very hard slope.
What the game lacks is to show numerically the grade of the slopes, so that the players could understand better if it's an easy slope or an hard climb.

Also, if the game would increase the possibility of building on high grade slopes, it would be totally unrealistic. In real life, railways tend to follow terrain curves to avoid slopes higher than 2%. Slopes of 3/4%, that are unavoidable in most mountain routes, require very powerful locos, and slopes higher than 5% require a rack rail and rack locos (that could be a very beautiful and useful addiction to the game and I see as the only way to let the player deal with higher slopes).

[Holy Athena]

Originally posted by neldot:

The slopes aren't so gradual as you could imagine only seeing them from an aerial view. Often we only see a little hill, but we are dealing with elevations of 6 - 8 meters in 100 meters of distance, that means a 6% / 8% very hard slope.
What the game lacks is to show numerically the grade of the slopes, so that the players could understand better if it's an easy slope or an hard climb.

Also, if the game would increase the possibility of build on high grade slopes, it would be totally unrealistic. In real life, railways tend to follow terrain curves to avoid slopes higher than 2%. Slopes of 3/4%, that are unavoidable in most mountain routes, require very powerful locos, and slopes higher than 5% require a rack rail and rack locos (that could be a very beautiful and useful addiction to the game and I see as the only way to let the player deal with higher slopes).

That's true.

1 of 2 things really needs to happen to fix this issue, as its a serious turn off especially to new people.

1) have a toggle that displays the lands slope.

2) buff the angle that trains can go up, even if it is slightly exagerated (like they did in Railroad Tycoon). It was exagerated past realistic abilities, but still looked realistic, and was for the most part, still in line with realism.

Every train in RT had a power to it, going up hills greatly slowed it down depending on how much it was hauling, if you put to much on it.. It'd stop and you'd have to put less cars on it. It was realistic, even if the slope wasn't 100% realistic. It allowed you to build and you could juggle the balance easier as a player. Steep slope = more powerful train and less freight, but at least I knew that, and could balance it out.

Due to how random this game is. Playing in a sandbox randomly generated world can have serious consequences of what you can and cannot build depending on where things are randomly placed. WIth such an arcade unrealistic way EVERYTHING in the game works, throwing in this janky realistic 2% max slope is still absurd no matter which way you throw the dice.

Meanwhile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_steepest_gradients_on_adhesion_railways

There are trains in the world that can go up pretty damn steep slopes. As you said though they require very powerful locomotives or specialized ones.

WHy not allow players to build steeper slopes, but that in turn decides whether a train can or cannot go up it? They already have how powerful a train is in the stats. If you the player hook up too many freight cars, that exceeds that power going up that slope, then it cannot do it and it stalls, and stops.

[sheep21]

Happy with slopes.as is
I honestly prefer it as it makes the game more of a challenge.

[><Ce|\|T><]

no problem for me ^^

[Allusion]

Originally posted by ><Ce|\|T><:

no problem for me ^^

+1

[SagaciousZed]

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

1) have a toggle that displays the lands slope.

There is a topological display in the game already. The toggle is next to the land value and the navigable waters display. Which is in the bottom right I believe.

Reading a topological map however is another matter which takes some practice to truly understand.

[neldot]

Originally posted by SagaciousZed:

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

1) have a toggle that displays the lands slope.

There is a topological display in the game already. The toggle is next to the land value and the navigable waters display. Which is in the bottom right I believe.

Reading a topological map however is another matter which takes some practice to truly understand.

The topological map is great, and at the present it's the only aid that you can count on to project your line in hilly terrain. However, I don't understand why the Devs didn't make the program to also show the grade of the tracks. It would be really useful not only when building the tracks, but also when you are choosing the best locos in regard to the slopes of your lines.

[ScruffyBamboo]

Originally posted by saturn__7:

That's realistic, trains can only climb a gradual slope. You would need to build something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusio_spiral_viaduct

Hehe... you mean like this? (This is from TF)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=313858233

[Robbedem]

The easiest way to build down or uphill, is alongside a mountain. That way you can put the rail on steep gradiënt and move the track so it keeps huggin the mountain.
Ofcourse if the mountain has a very irregular shape, you will need some bridges or tunnels because trans can't take sharp corners. Learning where to build those bridges and tunnels is part of the game.

On gentle slopes you go up or down sideways. So you might need to move slightly away from your destination insstead of going straight towards it. If you need to make a turn, make sure the lower part is enough above ground so that the cut when making the turn isn't too deep.

[Holy Athena]

The slope simply isn't realistic. Sorry not gonna argue that. I have train tracks in a town a few hours away that go up a hill. The whole area is extremely hilly, you drive for hours, and its constant up down, up down up, one hill right after another. For hills that are literally back to back the track goes wide around these, for hills that are by themselves they go up them.

The tracks are steeper than anything you can do in the game, and this is for normal freight trains. So i'm not gonna argue.

While it may be econonically best in the long run, to have a perfectly straight no sloped track from point A to point B with a very small 2 degree slope for the train, that isn't the magical cieling for trains. They can go up steeper slopes if necessary depending on the terrain in the area. Argueing against it is just as silly as argueing to keep it in cuz "Realism", even though its not realistic,and nothing else in the game even remotely simulates realistic situations either.

(Cuz trains totally magically disappeared and reappared facingthe other way right? lawls)

[Lagislazuli]

As others already said. ingame you have an aerial view which makes look even steep slopes relatively flat. The games slope building is imho fine as it is. ScruffyBamboo just showed how to climb up high mountains in a direct approach, i personally prefer going around them or climbing up in large curves using sidevalleys. Turn on the heightline overlay to place your tracks accordingly. Without heightlines it is just guessing and struggling around, with the lines once you get used to interprete them right you won't have to delete and go back any longer.

[SirLANsalot]

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

Every train in RT had a power to it, going up hills greatly slowed it down depending on how much it was hauling, if you put to much on it.. It'd stop and you'd have to put less cars on it. It was realistic, even if the slope wasn't 100% realistic. It allowed you to build and you could juggle the balance easier as a player. Steep slope = more powerful train and less freight, but at least I knew that, and could balance it out.

Trains in this game can (and do) stall out on a long steep hill if they have too much behind them. Learned that the hard way in Train Fever one time, Transport Fever behanves the same way.

For this game its not the HP rating, its the Tractive Effort that effects how well a train does going up a hill, and how fast it accelerates pulling a load.

Originally posted by ScruffyBamboo:

Originally posted by saturn__7:

That's realistic, trains can only climb a gradual slope. You would need to build something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusio_spiral_viaduct

Hehe... you mean like this? (This is from TF)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=313858233

Spirals work, but are expensive when it comes to bridges in Transport Fever.

Switchbacks work much better going up and down hills, making some very interesting S curves to get up a hill.




Oh and for gods sake, USE THE DAMN TERRAIN OVERLAY!!

[ScruffyBamboo]

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

The slope simply isn't realistic. Sorry not gonna argue that. I have train tracks in a town a few hours away that go up a hill. The whole area is extremely hilly, you drive for hours, and its constant up down, up down up, one hill right after another. For hills that are literally back to back the track goes wide around these, for hills that are by themselves they go up them.

The tracks are steeper than anything you can do in the game, and this is for normal freight trains. So i'm not gonna argue.

It's possible, but certainly not common. Read the second paragraph here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_steepest_gradients_on_adhesion_railways

Freight trains tend to be limited to under 1.5% grade, which is quite low.

As an example - the 4-8-8-4 BigBoy was developed to haul freight over Wasatch Range - at a max grade of 1.14%. They had to create this special locomotive for it, because others weren't powerful enough to climb it efficiently.

Just sayin - trains aren't rollercoasters lol ;)

[Holy Athena]

Originally posted by ScruffyBamboo:

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

The slope simply isn't realistic. Sorry not gonna argue that. I have train tracks in a town a few hours away that go up a hill. The whole area is extremely hilly, you drive for hours, and its constant up down, up down up, one hill right after another. For hills that are literally back to back the track goes wide around these, for hills that are by themselves they go up them.

The tracks are steeper than anything you can do in the game, and this is for normal freight trains. So i'm not gonna argue.

It's possible, but certainly not common. Read the second paragraph here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_steepest_gradients_on_adhesion_railways

Freight trains tend to be limited to under 1.5% grade, which is quite low.

As an example - the 4-8-8-4 BigBoy was developed to haul freight over Wasatch Range - at a max grade of 1.14%. They had to create this special locomotive for it, because others weren't powerful enough to climb it efficiently.

Just sayin - trains aren't rollercoasters lol ;)

I understand that. Just saying, with the limited information given, the terrain tool really isn't helpful much, and nothing else in the game being realistic, throwing on this arbituary 100% realistic mechanic is a odd ball that the mechanics simply don't support at the current time. It's quite frustrating.