Cargo routing

[ccomley]

is a bit odd.

OK, I can see that a "finished good" may not be the same as another one. So it makes sense for Factory A goods to go to their destination even if they go via the truck stop of Factory B, and Factory B goods go via A.

But a log is a log, and I have one route which has only three stops (a) logyard (b) sawmill (c) distribution truckstop. But logs are being placed ON these vehicles at (b) that have come from another log yard. And they go... all the way around and back to the sawmil!

And I have a train line that goes A B C D C B A - A is a refinery, B is an oil well, no other refineries or wells are in use, so why does some crude oil get specifically put on trains on the outward leg, and stay on the train to C, D, then back to C, and back to B, and then FINALLY get to A about a decade later? This makes no sense to me. If the system puts random goods on random trains, fine, but it's suppose to work out supply and demand routes, is it not?

[SBGaming]

Pathfinding is one of those things that might not make sense if you don't understand what the cargo is trying to do. Your job is to try to make sure cargo can get to it's destination as efficiently as possible, so that it takes the optimal routes that you want it to go.

Regarding your Oil Route, I presume that C and D are towns that you're delivering to. If you're asking why Oil gets on at B, and travels in the direction of C and D, returning back to B before continuing onto A, it is because that is a valid route, and because cargo (and passengers) pay direct based on the distance between where they get on a vehicle and where they get off a vehicle the two options available for cargo to travel (B-C-D-C-B-A and B-A) cost exactly the same.

Cargo also doesn't care how long it takes to get to it's destination, and so because both route options cost the same to transport, Crude Oil will take both options if it can. What it probably means though is that the throughput of getting Crude Oil from B to A is not sufficient (a bottleneck) and thus the cargo is trying to find alternate routes.

You are better off having a line that goes from Refinery to Oil Well and then back, and then have a line run from the Oil well to C and D (and then back to the Oil Well). Odds are the Crude Oil simply will not take the second route, and you can optimize the capacity of the Oil Well to Refinery line to keep up with production and demand. It does not make sense to combine all this on the same line.

Regarding your log example, it's hard to know exactly what's happening, so post a screenshot and we might be better able to explain what is happening.

If I were to take a guess, you have a second forest transporting Logs to the Sawmill? Logs are being dropped off at the Sawmill on the second line, being loaded up on the line described, making a round trip and ending up at the Sawmill?

What is probably happening here is the Truck Station you're dropping off Logs to from the second forest is not immediately within catchment range of the Sawmill, but is within range of the truck station that the first line is using. Because cargo can only make a single hop via catchment area before it has to be loaded onto a vehicle, what is probably happening is that the logs can only hop from Line 2's Truck Station to Line 1's Truck Station, and then get loaded onto the vehicles for Line 1 so that they can make a trip on a vehicle so that they can reach their final destination via catchment area to the Sawmill.

If the Line 2 Truck Station is within range of the Sawmill, it would not need to take that extra trip. As I said, that is my best guess based on the available information.

[canophone]

I'd split A-B from B-C-D. But it also doesn't sound like you need the second B stop going the other way, that would only be a filler for when the primary station path is at capacity (the crude only goes B-C-D-E-C-B-A when the B-A path has too many cargo waiting at Station B).

[Vimpster]

So why do you even have the train line stopping at B on it's way to C? It wouldn't pick up the crude if it didn't stop there. If it is dropping off fuel at the oil well station because of a nearby town then set the stop to unload only so it can unload fuel without picking up oil.

[ccomley]

The train goes there because it's carrying other stuff back and forth.

The weird routing makes sense if there's no "penalty" to taking a longer-than-necessary route. That's a bit odd, I had assumed a shorter route would be deemed "better". OTTD, the payment for a delivery depended both on the crow-flies distance you moved it AND how quickly it got there.

I've been using trains with different trucks but it looks like individual single-item trains running on the same line might be better in some circs.

[SBGaming]

To minimize the potential of cargo inefficiently utilizing your transportation network, it's often best to specialize your lines where possible. The common example is to have a line that runs from a Farm/Oil Well/Quarry to a Food Processor/Refinery/ConMat Plant, and then have the same vehicles haul the produced goods back to the Farm/Oil Well/Quarry. Additional lines would then ship off cargo to other destinations such as Towns, or in the case of Plastics, hauling Refined Oil that was delivered back to the Oil Well to a Chemical Plant.

You can optimize the Raw resource to produce line and maximize it's profit potential, leaving other lines to have a multi-purpose setup. I ran a Train Fever (achievement) mini-series on Youtube where I did all this, transporting all cargo by rail, and delivering the end products to towns. I also had an intercity rail cargo network that would also shift goods between towns to ensure all goods could get to all towns, and because different goods were distributed to various towns to start, the intercity lines were picking up and dropping off at cities along their route.

Fuel and Food are the easy cargo to achieve maximum profitability by train because the same wagon can be used to transport both the raw resource and consumer goods, whereas ConMat requires two separate wagons and unless you setup synergies (coal/iron in one direction and then stone/slag back the other direction), you're reducing your profit potential running multi-consist trains.

In Transport Fever the only concern regarding passengers and cargo is price. Fast Preference Passengers will pay more to take faster modes of transport (thus trains and airplanes), whereas Cheap Preference Passengers don't care how long it takes to get to their destination, they just want to pay as little as possible. Cargo happens to always prefer Cheap, thus if two route options cost exactly the same to get from Point A to Point B, it can and will take both. It will probably prioritize the shorter route first, but if cargo starts to queue, it may start utilizing other options, such as jumping on a train to take the scenic tour of the line, because as far as it's concerned, because it's already reserved a spot on the train by getting on route two, when the train comes back around to the station again, it'll get to it's destination before other cargo that's there waiting.

In the end, you don't necessarily benefit from having the line setup the way you had it. Your job is to provide cargo the option to travel, but ultimately it will decide what route it wants to take from the options you give it.

[sergetechone]

To you guys that are new. Cargo in this game is demand driven. And when you set up a cargo line, the chain AS TO BE COMPLETE. It mean : Grain -> Foods -> Town Commercial Zone ( Blue Zone ). It dont matter what type of transportation the cargo is being transported, As long the line as proper vehicules to transported the required goods and the line is complete. Example : Grain - by Trucks - Able to carry grains ---> Train - Cars able to carry grains. ---> Port -> Boat able to carry grains. --> Trucks - Able to Carry Grains. - > Foods -- > Trains - Able to carry foods --> trucks - Able to carry foods --- > Towns - Bus stop OR Truck Cargo Terminal that cover the blue zone of a town. A complex like my example or a simple one : A truck able to carry grain AND Foods. As long you COMPLETE THE CARGO CHAIN.

My standard setup is :
1 . Find a resource patch near as much towns is possible. More towns --- more demands. Like a circle... the resources is in the middle. Place a cargo station ( resources pick up) that are within a catchment of the resource patch. And place an another cargo station ( products to be distribute to the towns ) within the catchment of the first cargo station.
2. Place a cargo station within catchment of the producer.
3. Setup a line to carry : resources -- products with the proper vehicules. Line set up is : Wait until Full --> Pick up any load. Unlimited Wait. Start with One vehiclle first.
4. Place a cargo station OR bus stop the catchment area cover most of the zone of the products to be delived.
5. Setup a few lines with the proper vehicule to carry the products to the towns. Line setup is : Wait until Full --> Drop only. Pick up Nothing. Unlimited Wait. One vehicule first.
6. Wait until the resources get pick up... Check for the chain is working if any products is being made, if it is... the chain is now complete.
7. Add vehicules to cover the demand. As long the cargo delived per year of the line does not excede the total towns demand of the products being carry. Example : Grain - > Foods : 250
Town one : demand 100 -- Foods line one : 90. Town two : demand 150. Food line two : 120. Town three : demand 75. Food line 3 : 50. Total towns demand : 325 > 250 Grain - > Foods line. The chain is just fine.A bit a back up ... that ok with me.


As for the woods : The chain is : Logs --> Planks ---> Tools

Sorry for the mis-spelled words.

[DomDiaemus]

Originally posted by sergetechone:

To you guys that are new. Cargo in this game is demand driven. And when you set up a cargo line, the chain AS TO BE COMPLETE. It mean : Grain -> Foods -> Town Commercial Zone ( Blue Zone ). It dont matter what type of transportation the cargo is being transported, As long the line as proper vehicules to transported the required goods and the line is complete. Example : Grain - by Trucks - Able to carry grains ---> Train - Cars able to carry grains. ---> Port -> Boat able to carry grains. --> Trucks - Able to Carry Grains. - > Foods -- > Trains - Able to carry foods --> trucks - Able to carry foods --- > Towns - Bus stop OR Truck Cargo Terminal that cover the blue zone of a town. A complex like my example or a simple one : A truck able to carry grain AND Foods. As long you COMPLETE THE CARGO CHAIN.
.

All that works well at close distance and near direct thing... but is completely bonkers when exists a cargo chain, a distance between producer and final delivery... Take for example a large US map... Moving Crude from near Detroit to a refinery close to philadelphia... so that change is covered only by boat for example, it works... Now, place a delivery are in middle of industries in Miami and connected by a fuel truck which connects Miami docks and that innercity industry catchment... all well the chain and demand for fuel in Miami so it should be working right? But well then one other boat which connects Philadelphia Refinery docks (docks which receive the crude and creates the fuel+oil) and Miami docks (as described above chain set and demand of fuel) ... Well set the boat to just transport fuel from Philadelphia refinery docs down to Miami docks... and add a truck to transport fuel from the Philadephia Refinery to Philadelphia Refinery Docks... So logically the chain and demand is complete right... you got the demand and the delivery change... Now guess what happen.... NOTHING... The refinery doesn't acknowlege that exists a chain neither the demand.. So the game in terms of industry ... demand and chain is completely broken and pointless... All that demand and chain only works when produced and delivery are closer... and no more than few chain loops... add a proper chain between two distant places and is better you start writing a New Transport Fever that works... the current one simple isn't capable of following its own "logic".
But... guess what ... add a truck from the Philadelphia Refinery to deliver fuel to Miami directly... well it works... so what this say is simple... Industry only works if near directly connected and not through hups through different ways of transport... So it is a very basic dump game in respect to transport and delivery of products... Who knows TF2 might have some better "logic" but who knows.

[SBGaming]

Originally posted by DomDiaemus:

Originally posted by sergetechone:

To you guys that are new. Cargo in this game is demand driven. And when you set up a cargo line, the chain AS TO BE COMPLETE. It mean : Grain -> Foods -> Town Commercial Zone ( Blue Zone ). It dont matter what type of transportation the cargo is being transported, As long the line as proper vehicules to transported the required goods and the line is complete. Example : Grain - by Trucks - Able to carry grains ---> Train - Cars able to carry grains. ---> Port -> Boat able to carry grains. --> Trucks - Able to Carry Grains. - > Foods -- > Trains - Able to carry foods --> trucks - Able to carry foods --- > Towns - Bus stop OR Truck Cargo Terminal that cover the blue zone of a town. A complex like my example or a simple one : A truck able to carry grain AND Foods. As long you COMPLETE THE CARGO CHAIN.
.

All that works well at close distance and near direct thing... but is completely bonkers when exists a cargo chain, a distance between producer and final delivery... Take for example a large US map... Moving Crude from near Detroit to a refinery close to philadelphia... so that change is covered only by boat for example, it works... Now, place a delivery are in middle of industries in Miami and connected by a fuel truck which connects Miami docks and that innercity industry catchment... all well the chain and demand for fuel in Miami so it should be working right? But well then one other boat which connects Philadelphia Refinery docks (docks which receive the crude and creates the fuel+oil) and Miami docks (as described above chain set and demand of fuel) ... Well set the boat to just transport fuel from Philadelphia refinery docs down to Miami docks... and add a truck to transport fuel from the Philadephia Refinery to Philadelphia Refinery Docks... So logically the chain and demand is complete right... you got the demand and the delivery change... Now guess what happen.... NOTHING... The refinery doesn't acknowlege that exists a chain neither the demand.. So the game in terms of industry ... demand and chain is completely broken and pointless... All that demand and chain only works when produced and delivery are closer... and no more than few chain loops... add a proper chain between two distant places and is better you start writing a New Transport Fever that works... the current one simple isn't capable of following its own "logic".
But... guess what ... add a truck from the Philadelphia Refinery to deliver fuel to Miami directly... well it works... so what this say is simple... Industry only works if near directly connected and not through hups through different ways of transport... So it is a very basic dump game in respect to transport and delivery of products... Who knows TF2 might have some better "logic" but who knows.

I'm going to take a guess that the issue is either one of the price/distance limit, where the map is on the larger side and thus it's simply too expensive to transport longer distances. The other issue is that of Frequency, as in you do not have enough vehicles on the line, and thus the amount of time between when vehicles show up is too long for the industry to want to use the line.

Cargo (and passengers) can certainly transfer through multiple stops, and modes of transport, You need not transport it direct, but the more transfers it has to make, the more the overall cost to transport goes up if the cargo is taking several indirect routes, rather than travelling more directly.

I've seen Livestock jump on a truck line, transfer to a second truck line to the next town over, transfer onto a third truck line to the next town over, and then transfer over to a fourth truck line to finally get to it's destination. Food then flowed back through each of the same lines and even hopped aboard a ship at the start of the line to be transferred to another city. I've had cargo jump aboard a truck, jump aboard a train, jump aboard another truck then a ship, and then finally to another truck line.

When it comes to large maps, experimental map sizes are one of those player beware sort of things. If you do play on them, you have to accept that things might not work as you expect them to, and as such, it's a matter of player error. I'd like to see Transport Fever 2 eliminate the sort of price/distance limits we have. Train Fever previously had a 20 minute time limit, which had a similar effect. I'm sure the developers know that we as players want to play on larger maps, and thus do away with such limits.

Beyond that, it was hard to follow what you wrote. It would help if you broke up that wall of text into paragraphs.

[sergetechone]

@DomDiaemus ... I think I am begining to understand what you where talking about.

I did enconther this : I have a long train line ( Cattle / Foods ) using the map : St-Lawrence. I setup a distribution hub between Sarnia and Detroit. The hub was feeding : London, ON, Sarnia, ON, Windsor / Detroit Area and Toledo, MI. A farm was near to feed the train of cows. The train was 825 m in leight, the UP loco with 32 Reiffer cars. The Line was going throught Cleveland & Erie toward a Food factory near Rochester, NY. The Rochester hub was feeding : Rochester, NY Sarycuse, NY and Buffalo / Niaggara Falls Area. All have a bus stop at the Commercial Zone of each city to maximize demand. The chain was setup, the food factory reconize the chain, and the total demand was around 5000. So I get the demand. When the chain was running, only the Rochester Hub was receiving the foods, and the train was NOT load with foods.

I understand what you mean... The Rochester Hub was closer to the Food Factory, therefore the foods was at the terminal, but not on the train. So ... to fix the situation ... I add an another farm at the Michigan location ( yeah ... I got the "build the industries mod " ) , a second cattle line was added to feed the trains full of cattle, add an another train of 32 cars, check the cow productions, add an another train, up to 5 trains of 32 cars - 889 units of cattle each train.... I did see foods pilling up at the Michigan terminal, add more trucks...and my trains was getting foods of 300 to 600 on average going back. Yeah I did also have the Industries Increase Mod. ... NOW the chain is at full capacity, all cities being fed at least around past 75 %.

And the money ... playing easy ... trucks line was around 1 M to 4 M in revenue, the train line ( 5 train of 32 cars ) was getting around 200 M to 300 M in revenue.

I did not have any problems if a chain is long, at the factory side, no hub, just waiting for the products and ship back to a distribution hub... that ...no issue.

In the St-Lawrence map, I have to setup an another food chain to feed the Greater Toronto Area, Barrie, AND feed Montreal, Kingston, Ottawa, Cornwall and Burlington. Food factory south of Cornwall, Farms between Toronto and Barrie.

I did setup a simple Grain / Cattle - Foods truck line. A truck line to get grain / cattle - Foods, a distribution hub to feed Quebec and Trois Riviere. The farm was south of the St-Lawrence between Quebec and Trois Riviere, the food factory near Burlington. No trains, just trucks. 4 trucks of 75 capacity for the grain/food line, the rest of the trucks, a few 21 capacity to feed the two town. demand around 1200, The trucks chain revenue is around 10 M.

Yeah... I do understand the issue of cargo being distributed first to the closest lines of the product factory. Increase the frequency of the resources / products line is a solution and feed more resources is an another. Bear in mind...you must monitor the line demand.