Baffled by steel mill production and slag

[Gregorovitch]

The mill display says:

coal + iron == steel + steel + slag | steel

This is totally ambiguous: it could mean the mill either produces three steel or it produces two steel plus one slag per iron + coal imput. Or it could mean it either produces two steel plus one slag or just one steel per iron + coal input.

I've seen it posted it means the second of these interpretations bu I find that very hard to beleive since it would mean the mill was three times as productive in the first case as the second which is manifestly rediculuous.

But I don't knkow so my questions are:

1. What exactly is the precise meaning of coal + iron == steel + steel + slag | steel?
2. What exactly triggers the mill to produce slag in what circumstances and how much of it relative to steel will it produce how reliably?

[Paikia]

"Ambiguity" seems to be this game's unofficial name. Actually, Train Fever was "Ambiguity", as Transport Fever was supposed to be "Ambiguity 2". LOL

By this stupid joke I was actually trying to say I'm as confused as you are, and would like to know the answers as well.

[Nicky]

If you transport the slag out then the secodn production chain is triggered. You get then 2 steels for 1 coal 1 iron instead of just 1.

[Saint Landwalker]

#1, at least, is easy to test: Just give a steel mill some coal and iron and see what it produces.

In my admittedly limited experience with free play steel mills, it seems to be that (barring the production of slag) they produce 1 steel for 1 coal + 1 iron ore.

I have not arranged for any slag usage, so I don't know for certain what would trigger it, but I have to assume that the answer is "a connected line that demands slag in the forst placr and sufficient steel demand elsewhere to accommodate the higher steel production." That said, I've seen a number of threads here over the past month complaining about problems getting slag to produce at all. I don't know whether that's because of a slag-specific issue or because those people just hadon't other problems with their network.

[monotrom]

Steel mill does not produce 2 steels for 1 iron + 1 coal even there's constant slag transportation.

Slag is rather for 'bonus profit' from return trip of trains which have bulk hoppers attached.
Without slags, bulk hoppers on return trip earn nothing unless there's grain or stone supply nearby steel mill.

[monotrom]

So if you don't want bonus profits from return trip, or most of your freight lines are isolated so there's no room for making return trip delivering slags, slag transportation is pointless because it does not increase steel production (that display means 'slag is occasionally produced while steels are constantly produced', not 'steel production increasing while slags are dumped out somewhere')

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by Nicky:

If you transport the slag out then the secodn production chain is triggered. You get then 2 steels for 1 coal 1 iron instead of just 1.

I find that incredibly difficult to believe becasue it would imply the productivity of a steel mill is trippled if you ship slag from it which is patently rediculuous.

Originally posted by monotrom:

Steel mill does not produce 2 steels for 1 iron + 1 coal even there's constant slag transportation.

Slag is rather for 'bonus profit' from return trip of trains which have bulk hoppers attached.
Without slags, bulk hoppers on return trip earn nothing unless there's grain or stone supply nearby steel mill.

It would be very nicee it slag was just a bonus product but I can't seee how that tallies with coal + iron == steel + steel + slag | steel. That implies either you get three steel or two steel plus slag from one coal and one iron or you get two steel plus one slag or just one steal. I can't see what else it could mean.

[korac]

No, only doubled. In essence, the mill is capable of increasing steel output from the same quantity of ore but produces excessive slag as a byproduct. It can only do this if you set up a line to take the slag away (it can be used in making Construction Materials, along with stone). If you don't take the slag away, it will produce steel at only the standard rate.

[speedy6617]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

The mill display says:

coal + iron == steel + steel + slag | steel

This is totally ambiguous: it could mean the mill either produces three steel or it produces two steel plus one slag per iron + coal imput. Or it could mean it either produces two steel plus one slag or just one steel per iron + coal input.

I've seen it posted it means the second of these interpretations bu I find that very hard to beleive since it would mean the mill was three times as productive in the first case as the second which is manifestly rediculuous.

But I don't knkow so my questions are:

1. What exactly is the precise meaning of coal + iron == steel + steel + slag | steel?
2. What exactly triggers the mill to produce slag in what circumstances and how much of it relative to steel will it produce how reliably?

I believe this is exactly what it says. If you supplu the steel mill with coal + iron you can eigther transport out the following: 2 x Steel + 1 x Slag. Or if you do not want to be bothered with the slag you can transport 1 x steel. Pr unit processed of course.
1 unit coal + 1 unit iron ore = 2 x Steel and 1 x Slag
or
1 unit coal + 1 unit iron ore = 1 x Steel
Your choice.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by speedy6617:

I believe this is exactly what it says. If you supplu the steel mill with coal + iron you can eigther transport out the following: 2 x Steel + 1 x Slag. Or if you do not want to be bothered with the slag you can transport 1 x steel. Pr unit processed of course.
1 unit coal + 1 unit iron ore = 2 x Steel and 1 x Slag
or
1 unit coal + 1 unit iron ore = 1 x Steel
Your choice.

I agree that thhe statement coal + iron == steel + steel + slag | steel is so ambiguous that is a possible inteptretion but as I said, I find this extremely difficult to believe since it would mean the mill was three times as productive if you ship slag out of it, which is patently absurd, why would the devs do such a thing?

[peterhoepfner]

It's not ambiguous, it just means you have the option for either 1 steel or 2 steel and 1 slag per 1 coal and 1 iron delivered.
Which is ridiculius and bugridden but thats a different issue altogether.

[speedy6617]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Originally posted by speedy6617:

I believe this is exactly what it says. If you supplu the steel mill with coal + iron you can eigther transport out the following: 2 x Steel + 1 x Slag. Or if you do not want to be bothered with the slag you can transport 1 x steel. Pr unit processed of course.
1 unit coal + 1 unit iron ore = 2 x Steel and 1 x Slag
or
1 unit coal + 1 unit iron ore = 1 x Steel
Your choice.

I agree that thhe statement coal + iron == steel + steel + slag | steel is so ambiguous that is a possible inteptretion but as I said, I find this extremely difficult to believe since it would mean the mill was three times as productive if you ship slag out of it, which is patently absurd, why would the devs do such a thing?

Well. In real life steel production you have to handle slag no matter what. To make it a bit more "playable" i guess the devs found an easier way for some on the cost that you only get one steel in reward.
In real steel production tho the ratio whould rather be 8 x coal + 4 x iron ore = 2 x Steel and 1 times slag.
But. In a game perspective this ratio whould suddenly break the game because of the demand vs supply. If you do some calculations you will quickly see that the amount of coal mines and iron ore mines whould easily dominate the entire map. Or the amount of trains transporting coal/ore whould overload the already struggeling game engine.

[peterhoepfner]

That's all well and good, but it still doesn't explain the recipe discrepancy, why is it either 1 steel or 2 steel and 1 slag? It seems imbalanced.

[speedy6617]

Originally posted by peterhoepfner:

That's all well and good, but it still doesn't explain the recipe discrepancy, whi is it either 1 steel or 2 steel and 1 slag? It seem imbalanced.

Well. It is an workaround the devs went for. They could of course went for 1 + 1 = 1 + 1. But that whould mean the need for a second train again. I figure it is a hard lvl of transport and an easy level. They just dropped the medium in my eyes.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by peterhoepfner:

It's not ambiguous, it just means you have the option for either 1 steel or 2 steel and 1 slag per 1 coal and 1 iron delivered.
Which is ridiculius and bugridden but thats a different issue altogether.

I think it is: it could mean (2 steel + 1 slag) OR (1 steel). It could also mean (two steel) + (1 slag OR 1 steel). There is no way to know for sure.

Its's a classic AND/OR ambiguity bascially.

If you order some stuff from your local department store and thjey send you an email saying:

"We'll be coming on Tuesday and we'll either be delivering the fridge and the cooker or the washing machine"

You cannot tell if you are certain to get trhe fridge or not, not if you are going to get one or two items on Tuesday. 'Cos AND does not have precedence over OR (or vica versa) in natural language.

[peterhoepfner]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

Originally posted by peterhoepfner:

It's not ambiguous, it just means you have the option for either 1 steel or 2 steel and 1 slag per 1 coal and 1 iron delivered.
Which is ridiculius and bugridden but thats a different issue altogether.

I think it is: it could mean (2 steel + 1 slag) OR (1 steel). It could also mean (two steel) + (1 slag OR 1 steel). There is no way to know for sure.

Only if you've never looked at the recipes for any of the other industries in the game, there the format the recipes are written in becomes pretty clear.