Is there something wrong with the physics here?

[Misery]

I apologize if this has been brought up before (well, sort of... I dont mind adding to that if it gets attention to an issue).

Seriously though something seems really wrong with the physics in simulation mode. I mean, I just refuse to believe that 50% of the bloody slingshots were designed to *always* launch the ball into the outlanes. Among other issues.

At this point there are... quite a few tables that I will only play in Arcade mode, because there's just zero point in playing them in Simulation due to how bloody broken it seems.

And yeah I know some might say "git gud" but this doesnt happen anywhere else other than here... I've never seen it happen in VPX or Future Pinball for instance. Just here.

So... what's up with that? Am I missing something? It's more than a little irritating. For a mode called "simulation" it doesnt seem to be doing a very good job of simulating.

[SirQuestinghood]

Umm if you are talking about playing the 70's - 80's tables in simulation mode ... then yes... the sling physics are working perfectly. For they are recreations of tables that were created to take your money :)

[sfnhltb]

Originally posted by SirQuestinghood:

Umm if you are talking about playing the 70's - 80's tables in simulation mode ... then yes... the sling physics are working perfectly. For they are recreations of tables that were created to take your money :)

Which for me explains why pinball machines in the 70-80s got so little of my money, because playing a "game" in which you are basically a spectator as the ball rattles about and then falls out the outlane having never gone near the flippers as often as not is about as interesting as watching paint dry.

[Misery]

Originally posted by SirQuestinghood:

Umm if you are talking about playing the 70's - 80's tables in simulation mode ... then yes... the sling physics are working perfectly. For they are recreations of tables that were created to take your money :)

It aint just that. I probably should have explained a bit better.

There's other things too. One big one is holes that the ball just will not freaking go into, yet it's clear that it SHOULD be going in. Like it's just going too fast at all times to make it in, so when it goes down some little lane that ends in a hole, it instead just ends up flying right back out.

Biggest example is Soccer Kings, with that upper playfield. You get up there and based on stuff you did on the main playfield you've got a certain number of shots to get into the goal via the single flipper in there; the ball cannot drain out of that area normally (there's nowhere for it to go), so what is supposed to happen is that each shot you make will one way or another fall through the big gap behind the goal. If it falls between the goal posts, yay, points. If it falls outside of them, you missed.... either way, you then get another ball and you keep doing this until you run out of extra kicks that you've built up.

But playing simulation mode you can almost get "stuck" in there because the ball slams into that back area so fast that it just pops right back out. So regardless of whether or not you get between the posts and score a goal, or miss, it doesnt drop as it should, and you just keep making the same shot over and over and over and over until you get lucky and it just happens to go down there. It just... doesnt... freaking... work. (a shame, too, it's an excellent table).

Ironically that table is one of the ones that DOESNT have the slingshot issue. It just has other parts that are broken.

Besides, this aint just the older tables that do this. Plenty in the remake section will do it, and those never physically existed. Not to mention that even the older tables that DONT do it are still hard enough without this issue taking place (no complaints there!)

But yeah, it's stuff like that. Slingshots draining the ball, and various features that dont work because the ball is moving too fast at all times.

It aint exactly game ruining or anything; this is still my favorite pinball game/collection regardless. But it's definitely an issue, particularly since, well... it's literally called "simulation" mode. It should be acting as the table was designed, not having things break because the ball is moving at speeds it wasnt designed for.

[X-Vector]

See here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/444930/discussions/0/3273561484340650540

[SirQuestinghood]

hmm Well maybe I'm not the best to say then? I hardly ever post on this board though I do look at it from time to time. I did see some threads about the physics changing... and played some of the 70's-80's machines but could not tell a difference.

It's very possible I do not remember how Zac played before I took a long break from pinball... I'm also use to adjusting on-the-fly from playing pinball on-off for 40+ years. So honestly, maybe I just can't tell on the only machines I play (i.e. 70-80's simulation)

I'll play some today and see if I see anything crazy. Though I'll probably just look at the original recreations... and maybe a couple of the remakes. Winter Sports Remake is pretty fun :)

[SirQuestinghood]

ok so I just played the original Shooting The Rapids and can't tell any difference. Was able to run the score up to 3 mil on my 4th game and can tell my 5 mil score would be reachable quickly. (5 ball sim)

I guess I never played Soccer Kings o_O and OMG what a gimmick table lol. I do have a couple of quick thoughts though Misery.

Rubbers on the flippers are a little bit too bouncy. This tends to be an issue when increasing the rubber hit bounce globally... when flippers were hard plastic... so yeah. FX has been guilty of this with some of the WMS tables especially in tournament settings (GG Monster Bash ffs)

That gobble hole, on top, seems smaller than the real version. I think this is a problem with the difference of the real table's wood sinking into the hole... and just having a hole on the Zac recreation. Also the real version seems to have some kind of upper multi ball while shooting / scoring goals?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWZxewdq_k&ab_channel=ForAmusementOnlye.V.-Flipper-undArcademuseumSeligenstadt

[SirQuestinghood]

The overall ball pace is much slower on the real tables. Idk... I don't have any memory of this table. PB Champ and Farfalla are the only ones I remember from the arcades here in Indiana.

[Edit] and yeah... that hole is slightly larger on the real machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L-q-f2Y3Eo&ab_channel=turbografx7

[SirQuestinghood]

ball pace is slower and heavier on the real machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtyv9n8ltwg&ab_channel=zaccariapinball

[Misery]

Huh... looking at those, yeah, that definitely looks quite different from how it moves here.

So, an update screwing up the physics then, is what it seems to be?

The big question for me is... why? I cant imagine any reason to do that. It doesnt ruin the game or anything (even if some tables get really wonky) but still, it seems a very strange move on the part of the devs.


On a side note it's really neat to see the physical table in those videos. Been so very long since I last saw even one actual pinball table in person.