guy with 1500 elo, me 1900

[MaLGooee]

him platinium , me diamond. It makes no sense for me to be queue with this kind of player. Its not the elo, its not rank, what is the matchmaking based off? What exaclty, it screems lazyness, just that, makes no sense. And its not just 1 guy, its every game, guys asking me how to spawn the horse.
Can somone explain this

[MaLGooee]

Make it rank based, that way everyone has fun. Its the most basic for of matchmaking, you dont need to go on a extensive complicated way of matchmaking. If the player is about to rank up, make him go against players of the next rank and so on. Csgo does it, do it to

[Fritten Ulli]

I have 2200 elo and i am matching with 1300 elos. You have to find out about your teamskill quickly and choose champs that can carry more easily. In this cases i insist on being flank or damage..

[Fritten Ulli]

Its the same with saving champs for others. Sometimes i am asked to save e. g. Willo for players that have 30% winrate after 150 matches. Just dont save it then..

[MaLGooee]

Originally posted by DisOrdeR:

I have 2200 elo and i am matching with 1300 elos. You have to find out about your teamskill quickly and choose champs that can carry more easily. In this cases i insist on being flank or damage..

The thing is, is makes no sense for you to be queue with this players. I dont want to play against them or with them. Winning 4-0 versus golds and platiniums is not a victory, not for me at least. And you cannot carry in this game, its not possible. Unless the disparity of skill is so big and then. those games I dont want to play them, they are boring.

[VaciVt]

its combined hidden elo, with consideration of tier and winning/losing streak. there's no perfect matchmaking, they can only match you with closest, nearest, and fastest possible opponent. take one of the algorithm away and you wont find a match.

but that being said, yes in paladins you can have that pretty much big gap.

[Cuddly rat]

In casual siege I have 2500 ElO but enemy team is 5 stack GM having 3500 elo. Good matchmaking right?

[Ham]

Guru ELO is not always accurate.
The thing is these players probably have similar MMR to yours, you just cant see that so its confusing. Also parties will drastically increase the range of MMR entering your games.

The system is working as intended, the problem is the system cannot track personal skill level in any way. So only the very best who can solo carry high level matches, or the very worst who can solo throw low level matches are ranked properly.

Everyone else is playing in the gong show we call paladins ranked

[MaLGooee]

Originally posted by VaciVt:

its combined hidden elo, with consideration of tier and winning/losing streak. there's no perfect matchmaking, they can only match you with closest, nearest, and fastest possible opponent. take one of the algorithm away and you wont find a match.

but that being said, yes in paladins you can have that pretty much big gap.

The thing is you will, you cannot simply cut the fact that X player is X skill level and put him with a higher leveled player. And expect both players to have fun. That is the most important part about a matchmaking, its the purpose of it. We can say, but it would just make queue times longer, they could just not divide the playerbase so much like they do with subranks(the 1,2,3,4,5). That way once a player reaches X rank he doesnt get queue with lowers rank

[MaLGooee]

Originally posted by Ham:

Guru ELO is not always accurate.
The thing is these players probably have similar MMR to yours, you just cant see that so its confusing. Also parties will drastically increase the range of MMR entering your games.

The system is working as intended, the problem is the system cannot track personal skill level in any way. So only the very best who can solo carry high level matches, or the very worst who can solo throw low level matches are ranked properly.

Everyone else is playing in the gong show we call paladins ranked

I understand that parties may make X rank player play with X ranks, witch happens in every other game. Its impossible for a player asking you how to spawn a horse to be on the same level as me, just not possible. I'am not the best player but I dont go so low.
The system should not be tracking personal skill level, no game should do that. It should be rank based, you get higher by winning, you can only win by getting better at the game. That is the fundamental of a matchmaking system. Taking it to csgo, if I am DMG, i get matched with dmgs, perhaps the elo system will choose players with the most closest elo, but you only get DMG by improving your skills, so you expect X player, bringing it to paladins, to have custom card decks, to know what champions to use in X map, to know what champions counter X. When I press play, right know I dont know if the player(enemy or teammate) will know how to spawn a horse, how to counter sky, what champion to choose for that very closed map. So how can the system be working has intended, what is the intention of the system exactly?

[VaciVt]

Originally posted by MaLGooee MAJORRRR IS ONNN:

Originally posted by VaciVt:

its combined hidden elo, with consideration of tier and winning/losing streak. there's no perfect matchmaking, they can only match you with closest, nearest, and fastest possible opponent. take one of the algorithm away and you wont find a match.

but that being said, yes in paladins you can have that pretty much big gap.

The thing is you will, you cannot simply cut the fact that X player is X skill level and put him with a higher leveled player. And expect both players to have fun. That is the most important part about a matchmaking, its the purpose of it. We can say, but it would just make queue times longer, they could just not divide the playerbase so much like they do with subranks(the 1,2,3,4,5). That way once a player reaches X rank he doesnt get queue with lowers rank

It's not that simple. Someone who have great skill with Bomb King and having 10 streak wins wont guarantee can play/pick Bomb King in another match. There's draft pick, and there's almost 40 champions that can change him from skilled to trash. The system cant guarantee who will pick which. Is that guy one trick pony or a flex player? The system can put a stress to that player whether he is that good and if he can carry the game so they try to put him higher/lower. The variant is so big that, for me i think, only after 100 ranked matches, someone will be at the tier that he should be. So dont be surprised when a Diamond player playing trash when he actually just played 20 ranked match with his main Androxus and being forced to use Evie (example).

[Ham]

In a team based game such as this, your team and how they play is very important.

If your "skill" is based of a win loss ratio from games played in a randomly assigned team with random skill levels. Then the system will never really know where you should be.
Because you can play very good and lose, or play very bad an get carried, all depending on what kind of team you draw and what kind of team the enemy draws.

On top of all that, alot of players see what a random gong show solo que is, and join parties to carry everyone to plat/entry level diamond. It is a carry because controling the amount of potatoes on your team is an advantage on its own. Then you can also work together like a team and even use comms if you really want an advantage.

So then we get all these players who really should be silver competing in diamond. and they cant progress because they can only duo que now, and the good players on thier carry team wants to play with another good player. So they drop into plat and mix with all the players who legitimately got there and the gong show begins for everyone.

[Ripshot Blue]

If this game was Ranked Based, Then my Smurf would have Godly Elo.

[MaLGooee]

Originally posted by VaciVt:

Originally posted by MaLGooee MAJORRRR IS ONNN:

The thing is you will, you cannot simply cut the fact that X player is X skill level and put him with a higher leveled player. And expect both players to have fun. That is the most important part about a matchmaking, its the purpose of it. We can say, but it would just make queue times longer, they could just not divide the playerbase so much like they do with subranks(the 1,2,3,4,5). That way once a player reaches X rank he doesnt get queue with lowers rank

It's not that simple. Someone who have great skill with Bomb King and having 10 streak wins wont guarantee can play/pick Bomb King in another match. There's draft pick, and there's almost 40 champions that can change him from skilled to trash. The system cant guarantee who will pick which. Is that guy one trick pony or a flex player? The system can put a stress to that player whether he is that good and if he can carry the game so they try to put him higher/lower. The variant is so big that, for me i think, only after 100 ranked matches, someone will be at the tier that he should be. So dont be surprised when a Diamond player playing trash when he actually just played 20 ranked match with his main Androxus and being forced to use Evie (example).

The thing is, we are not talking about the same skill, my point is not about champion mastery. Its the game skill you need to learn. Map position, card decks, items, counter champions and so on. Those things that no matter what champion your playing you have when playing higher ranking and you need to learn to get to a high skill level. You may enter the game, geat some great chemistry with sky, you get some good games, you rank up you get better playersm and the moment those players present you with item picking, getting vivian, or tyra etc.. to counter you, they actively search for you. You get reckt, you get slapped down, and you must think on what you did wrong. That is skill, that separates players, like in csgo, the game I am most confortable with. I can tell you exaclty what rank a player more or less has after seeing him play. Comparing it to paladins, a pplayer may have 50 kills, but if I see him, plating the bomb in the wrong places, not knowing the positions to take. That is the skill leveling in that game, same with paladins. Skills that you will gain by experience. A skilled player may have a bad game, but he will have the basics ingraned in him, a thing I see constantly, a flanker, he is having a hard time breaking the enemy defense, a player who is off lower skill will turn to the tanks and shoot them, they are a easy target, they are not moving and you can always show some work that way. A player who is having a bad game but has the skills, doesnt turn to the tanks for easy targets, he makes his tank flank with him, or takes an abundante of other tactics he adquired with experience.

You cannot get 20 ranked match wins, when you reach certain wins, the system should put you against players of a higher rank, that will have the epxerience to counter your game.

[Ripshot Blue]

Originally posted by MaLGooee MAJORRRR IS ONNN:

Originally posted by VaciVt:

It's not that simple. Someone who have great skill with Bomb King and having 10 streak wins wont guarantee can play/pick Bomb King in another match. There's draft pick, and there's almost 40 champions that can change him from skilled to trash. The system cant guarantee who will pick which. Is that guy one trick pony or a flex player? The system can put a stress to that player whether he is that good and if he can carry the game so they try to put him higher/lower. The variant is so big that, for me i think, only after 100 ranked matches, someone will be at the tier that he should be. So dont be surprised when a Diamond player playing trash when he actually just played 20 ranked match with his main Androxus and being forced to use Evie (example).

The thing is, we are not talking about the same skill, my point is not about champion mastery. Its the game skill you need to learn. Map position, card decks, items, counter champions and so on. Those things that no matter what champion your playing you have when playing higher ranking and you need to learn to get to a high skill level. You may enter the game, geat some great chemistry with sky, you get some good games, you rank up you get better playersm and the moment those players present you with item picking, getting vivian, or tyra etc.. to counter you, they actively search for you. You get reckt, you get slapped down, and you must think on what you did wrong. That is skill, that separates players, like in csgo, the game I am most confortable with. I can tell you exaclty what rank a player more or less has after seeing him play. Comparing it to paladins, a pplayer may have 50 kills, but if I see him, plating the bomb in the wrong places, not knowing the positions to take. That is the skill leveling in that game, same with paladins. Skills that you will gain by experience. A skilled player may have a bad game, but he will have the basics ingraned in him, a thing I see constantly, a flanker, he is having a hard time breaking the enemy defense, a player who is off lower skill will turn to the tanks and shoot them, they are a easy target, they are not moving and you can always show some work that way. A player who is having a bad game but has the skills, doesnt turn to the tanks for easy targets, he makes his tank flank with him, or takes an abundante of other tactics he adquired with experience.

You cannot get 20 ranked match wins, when you reach certain wins, the system should put you against players of a higher rank, that will have the epxerience to counter your game.

If you actually managed to get a 20 win streak the system should bump you up some ranks, winning 20 without a streak isnt much.

[MaLGooee]

Originally posted by Ham:

In a team based game such as this, your team and how they play is very important.

If your "skill" is based of a win loss ratio from games played in a randomly assigned team with random skill levels. Then the system will never really know where you should be.
Because you can play very good and lose, or play very bad an get carried, all depending on what kind of team you draw and what kind of team the enemy draws.

On top of all that, alot of players see what a random gong show solo que is, and join parties to carry everyone to plat/entry level diamond. It is a carry because controling the amount of potatoes on your team is an advantage on its own. Then you can also work together like a team and even use comms if you really want an advantage.

So then we get all these players who really should be silver competing in diamond. and they cant progress because they can only duo que now, and the good players on thier carry team wants to play with another good player. So they drop into plat and mix with all the players who legitimately got there and the gong show begins for everyone.

Every multiplayer I play its team based. The thing is there is no system at the moment, I would gladly tell you to implement such a system that is capable of calculating skill, but it doesnt exist!
Hirez has no such system, the same wth every other company I know off.
If you get carried, the moment you play alone your gonna get slapped down, and that is how th rank should be made, by players and their skill in the game. A ranking system should be made by the players themselfs. If you keep playing in a team and get carried then its good for you, its a strategy has any other, until the moment you get to play versus players of high ranking and you may start to be to much dead wieght for your team. Again, the players and their skill will determine what rank you deserve.

Joining a party is a advantage in every game there is, you cannot fight. There is no discussion there because its not a problem.

That player will eventually be put in his real rank, because better players will keep winning over him. That is not a problem, and its how it should work. You cannot stop players from abusing the system in that way.