Melee Champions are a Must!

[Jackalope™]

Paladins is a really great game. It provides fun, and challenging Overwatch-caliber gameplay at the cost of nothing. However, there's something it really lacks. And I mean REALLY lacks.

Melee combat. It simply does not exist in Paladins.

The closest thing to melee is Maeve's pounce attack or Fernando's flamethrower-lance-thingy. Before I go any further, I'd like to address a common argument against melee in Paladins:
"It's hard to get close to any enemy in Paladins because literally everyone's weapon is a projectile."
This is true. Squishy characters (e.g. Skye, Ying, etc...) have a big difficulty getting close to enemies. The simple solution? Don't make melee champions squishy. Either that or allow them to make an easier escape. So without further ado, I would like to propose my idea for implementing melee into Paladins. I can assure you, it will add a ton of variety to the gameplay.

#1: Changing Existing Play-Styles
First off, I would like to suggest that Hi-Rez change the play-style of a few existing champions. Nothing too major, just change the way their weapon works to make it a melee weapon.

Grover: (EDIT: Disclaimer - I know Grover was a melee champion in the class. HowEVER, I don't believe that his melee abilities were done correctly. The changes I'm suggesting are different from what was previously done.) Grover would make THE BEST melee champion in this entire game. He already has a flippin' axe! Wait, he throws it away? That's dumb. How about if Grover used his axe properly as his mouse-1 attack instead of chucking it. Here's my proposition: Grover would deliver a powerful melee swing (dealing 950 base damage in one strike). His mouse-2 attack could still be throwing his axe, and that way he isn't left completely without any ranged attacks. His vine-attack allows him to quickly get in and out of melee range. Over all the other champions in this list, Grover would take the least amount of effort to re-learn his new play-style. Needless to say, Grover is the prime candidate for a melee buff.

Fernando: Fernando has always been... well... meh. I mean, he's a great support champion... it's just too bad he's technically a front line. Fernando deals a tiny amount of damage at a time and is more of a large annoyance than anything else. And after all, he IS a knight. Why doesn't he have more of a flame sword instead of a flame lance? I would suggest that if he were to have a sword, he could deal 800 damage on each strike. If he had a sword, his charge attack could be used alongside his sword and add damage to it if he lands a strike with the sword during the charge. He could even keep the fireball as part of his sword (flaming sword shoots fireballs? Yeah, that could work.) And the best part: his sword's name: "Volcán" (Spitfire). And alternate name might be "Magma Blade" but Volcán is much more fitting with his character.

Ash: When Hi-Rez added Ash, I literally face-palmed. "Paladins," I said. "you've birthed a monster." Aside from being OP, Ash is an okay character I guess... Ash, however, could be made into something truly awesome, yet more balanced. Ash already has the design and playstyle of a knight-like, warrior character, so why not make her more like one? So here's my idea. Frankly, it's genius. Why not make her spike-ball launcher into a spike-ball launching mace? Y'know, like one of those cartoony spikey maces. For her mouse-1 attack she could deliver knockback strikes (dealing 900 damage) and for her mouse-2 attack she could superheat the spike-ball and launch it off dealing explosive damage. After it is launched, she reloads the mace with another spike-ball. Isn't that just the greatest idea ever? No? Oh, well, listen to this next idea.

Inara: Simple modification: Inara's stone spear becomes a melee weapon that deals 850 damage. Can't you just see this working? Inara whipping that spear around like a bo staff? It's not like she WOULDN'T be a good melee champion. She can even defend herself with her "Earthen Guard". Let me explain further. Inara already has two ranged attacks. She can control manipulate earth and create obstacles and hazards from far away, but if enemies manage to get closer, she has a more formidable, yet still fair, way to deal with them.

Makoa: Why is Makoa NOT a melee champion? Aside from Grover, he seems like the next candidate for a melee change. Makoa has the biggest fists in the entire game. Why doesn't he ever use them? Oh yeah. His hands are full with an anchor and that stupid "cannon". I mean, you know you have a useless weapon when your ultimate involves completely dropping it. I'm not joking. Watch Makoa's ult. He literally drops his cannon and switches to his anchor. So why not drop the cannon for good and stick to the anchor as a melee weapon (dealing 750 damage)? That would be so cool and badbutt, though. Hooking someone in with the anchor, and then using said anchor to beat the crap outta 'em. Or what about his fists? That works too. His knuckles are designed like steel gauntlets. Both would work tremendously well. It's not like his mobility and defenses are weak. With his shell spin and shell shield, he's in pretty good shape. Besides, the shell shield is pretty OP so a melee would be an appropriate nerf anyway.

Skye: At last we have Skye. She may be a squishy class but she can go fast and disappear. So here's my proposition. What if her mouse-1 and mouse-2 abilities were switched? And instead of mouse-2 shooting a poison dart, she whips out an Assassin Creed-style wristblade? That would fit her Twilight Assassin character, right? She could still keep her rapid-fire dart shooter formidable, but as a mouse-2 move instead. Her wristblade would deal 500 base damage on hit, but the darts would inflict poison and a vulnerability towards melee (taking 25% more damage from them) and damaging them at 10 damage each second for 10 seconds. This would make a ton of sense and raise the skill ceiling for this champion since the player needs effective timing between spraying the target with poison darts and then stabbing them.

#2: New Champion Ideas
Whew! That was a long list. So, a lot of you may not like changing existing champions, and that's perfectly understandable. This list was made to accompany some character changes in the previous and/or to also provide an alternative to changing existing champions.

Charleston: Yes, I know the Charleston is a dance style. I actually know how to dance it. But this is different. It's a play on words with the dance-style, the British naming convention (putting "ton" on names like Padding-ton, etc...) and the common UK name "Charles". Character-wise, Charleston is a British stereotype, drinking tea as an emote and using phrases like "old boy", "poppycock", and "chappie". He's a bit ditsy, but he is very passionate and willing to defend his team with his life. In terms of his playstyle, he would be a knight (looking rather like the knights from For Honor and old English crusaders). He would have a sword and shield.
Charleston has 4500 health.
Now let's go over his moveset:
Mouse-1: Strike - A simple melee strike that deals 950 damage on hit
Mouse-2: Shield - Deploy your shield very similar to how Fernando's shield works, except instead of blocking 8000 damage, Charleston's shield only blocks 4000. However, walking into enemies with the shield damages them 250 damage and knockback damage.
F: Skewer - A stab attack/lunge capable of disabling defenses. Dealing a base damage of 475 towards, the skewer attack deals 1900 damage towards defenses (shields, Ruckus' energy shield, etc...).
Q: Teatime - A sip of Charleston's tea gets rid of the recover time, however, you have to stand still for 3 seconds while you drink.
Ultimate: Blustery Winds - Spin around the battlefield with your sword out causing loads of AOE damage (500 damage a second towards players caught in your tornado). Dizzy penalty after use, so make sure you use it in a situation where you know you can eliminate all the enemies within the area.

The next few ideas are not quite as developed as Charleston, but I will work further on them.

Freya: Wagnerian Valkyrie wearing a winged helmet with blonde braids and clad in white. Freya can fly in similar fashion to Drogoz.
Freya has 3100 health.
Mouse-1: Strike - Deal 700 damage against targets.
Mouse-2: Heal - Hold to heal a single target at a time. Once you've healed 500 health overall, the cooldown begins (cooldown of 15 seconds)
F: Throw Spear - Throw your spear into the ground, carving a rune on the surface and creating a healing beacon that lasts 10 seconds. If this lands on an enemy player, the player will receive 200 damage and denied healing for 10 seconds.
Q: Wings of Asgard - Cast a spell on a single target that increases their move speed by 10%. Casting this also gives Freya a 5% speed boost.
Ultimate: Opera - Freya uses her "beautiful" singing talent to summon a lightning storm around her which shocks fallen teammates (up to 3 nearby dead players) back to life and gives slow damage to enemies (damaging them 50% of their base health).

Takeshi: A samurai warrior! Just what this game needs. Takeshi wears a large dark samurai helmet and is clad in very large dark samurai armor. His face is covered by a not-so-terrifying kabuki mask. With no shield, he relies solely on his enchanted katana and his kunai blades.
Takeshi has 4200 health.
Mouse-1: Kunai - Throw Kunai with a clip size of 3 and deal 350 damage on each hit.
Mouse-2: Strike - Deal 850 damage with your katana.
F: Hiyaku - Perform an anime style leap forward. Landing a melee strike mid-leap will deal 150 damage extra and cause the target to die a dramatic death if the move ends in a death.
Q: Hashiru - Gain a slight movement speed advantage (5% boost) and the ability to run on walls as well as full air control.
Ultimate: Kill Move - Focused damage. Deal 80% of one targets health with a melee swing. Does not ignore shields and instead will destroy a shield instead of a killing its user.

So yeah, those are my ideas. Now, does this mean I want EVERY idea here implemented? No. In fact, I don't think there should be that many melee champions. Just about three or four to spice up the gameplay. Ideally, if it were up to me, I'd like Grover to be changed, Skye to be changed, Makoa to be changed, and Charleston to be added.

Let me know what you think! And Hi-Rez, if you're reading this, I've got more ideas where that came from. Hit me up sometime. :D

Thanks!

EDIT: If you don't like my ideas, then discuss them. Don't attack me or anyone else on this thread. This is a discussion of ideas, not people. For the sake of decency, please don't use ad hominem attacks; they don't prove your point, they just make you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

[AAA]

Messaggio originale di MLG_Sn3k:

Messaggio originale di Dante:

Tanks can be aggressive?

Flanknando? I mean I play a semi agressive/defensive fernando. (if that makes sense)

I was being very sarcastic, as Drogoz destroying my shield in one salvo without wrecker usually makes it impossible to be aggressive on point when mroe thenone damage are there.

[VaciVt]

Messaggio originale di MeatShake:

Play Battleborn it just went F2P and has a ton of melee characters. You can see why it's a good/bad idea there before suggesting huge changes to this game.

What. I didn't know that. Guess they have to increase their player base I thought they won't ever make it free to play. Guess I'm gonna try it now. Thanks.

[Jackalope™]

Messaggio originale di Bisquetz:

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

What's really funny here is that this was posted right after someone said:(snip)

Would it still be funny if i say i wrote that when there were still no comments in this thread? welp, i guess it is. lol

xD

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

Anywhoo, first of all, there is an inconsistent argument here. First you say melee champs and champs with short range don't work because their too squishy. Then you say they are too op. Please make up your mind. :D

Read again mate, in order of the paragraph this time :)

Actually, i'll just explain it to you cuz why not.
I was saying that short range HURTS because long range champions like Drogoz or Kinessa can straight up murder you if your Damages are down.
THEN i said that adding mobility, something that you suggested to rectify this problem because now these champs can just freely jump to their target, is something that would make these tanks OP because on top of being tanky and high damaging(850 a swing is ALOT), they now have the mobility to traverse around the map easier compared to other tanks, effectively making them a really buffy and scary Flanks.

With that, I would like to conclude that melee champions as you suggested just simply doesn't work. Having a short range rather than melee range is just a straight up a better and balanced design choice.

p.s. tbh i missed the Skye part, but i gotta say it's just a bad idea to give such a squishy champion melee range.

Dear Bisquetz. The fact that your post is funny has nothing to do with when you posted it. What's funny is that you were acting exactly as predicted by the previous post.

Second, I read your post three times actually. And I have to say your arguments are still inconsistent. You literally just did it again.

"I was saying that short range HURTS because long range champions like Drogoz or Kinessa can straight up murder you if your Damages are down."

Right here, whether you realized it or not, is when you said that melees are too squishy to handle long range enemies. Also, a long range is just as effective against shorter ranges. But I don't see anyone wanting to get rid of them.

"THEN i said that adding mobility, something that you suggested to rectify this problem because now these champs can just freely jump to their target, is something that would make these tanks OP because on top of being tanky and high damaging(850 a swing is ALOT), they now have the mobility to traverse around the map easier compared to other tanks, effectively making them a really buffy and scary Flanks."

Back that up. See, here's where the inconsistency happens. You say that by adding one feature, melee champions are suddenly OP. BIG differentiation from your previous argument. Another thing, please tell me where I said melee champs could "jump to their target". If that's what you think I said, that is indeed OP. And again, Reinhardt is something that works. My proposition wouldn't work any worse since Reinhardt is a working standard that I have based my ideas upon.

[Jackalope™]

Messaggio originale di MeatShake:

Play Battleborn it just went F2P and has a ton of melee characters. You can see why it's a good/bad idea there before suggesting huge changes to this game.

Don't bring Battleborn into this just because it has melee characters. That really doesn't have anything to do with this. If you wanna play that card, here is a list of random games that have melee characters:
For Honor
Team Fortress 2
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare
Blitz Brigade
Mount and Blade
World of Warcraft
The Elder Scrolls Online


These don't have anything to do with my idea either. I believe my standard for these ideas was Reinhardt (from Overwatch), not any character from Battleborn or any of these games.

[Toyfan1]

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

Paladins is a really great game. It provides fun, and challenging Overwatch-caliber gameplay at the cost of nothing. However, there's something it really lacks. And I mean REALLY lacks.

Melee combat. It simply does not exist in Paladins.

The closest thing to melee is Maeve's pounce attack or Fernando's flamethrower-lance-thingy. Before I go any further, I'd like to address a common argument against melee in Paladins:
"It's hard to get close to any enemy in Paladins because literally everyone's weapon is a projectile."
This is true. Squishy characters (e.g. Skye, Ying, etc...) have a big difficulty getting close to enemies. The simple solution? Don't make melee champions squishy. Either that or allow them to make an easier escape. So without further ado, I would like to propose my idea for implementing melee into Paladins. I can assure you, it will add a ton of variety to the gameplay.

#1: Changing Existing Play-Styles
First off, I would like to suggest that Hi-Rez change the play-style of a few existing champions. Nothing too major, just change the way their weapon works to make it a melee weapon.

Grover: Grover would make THE BEST melee champion in this entire game. He already has a flippin' axe! Wait, he throws it away? That's dumb. How about if Grover used his axe properly as his mouse-1 attack instead of chucking it. Here's my proposition: Grover would deliver a powerful melee swing (dealing 950 base damage in one strike). His mouse-2 attack could still be throwing his axe, and that way he isn't left completely without any ranged attacks. His vine-attack allows him to quickly get in and out of melee range. Over all the other champions in this list, Grover would take the least amount of effort to re-learn his new play-style. Needless to say, Grover is the prime candidate for a melee buff.
!

And that's where I stopped reading.
Grover WAS a melee champion.
And he sucked.

Makoa is the perfect melee champ currently.
He has range yet his ult gives the perfect amount of melee that should be in the game.
A single ability, for a short amount of time.

A new champ would be great, if they had a melee alt attack, and thats all.
Simple.
But a melee only champ?
Done that, and it failed.

[Toyfan1]

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

Messaggio originale di MeatShake:

Play Battleborn it just went F2P and has a ton of melee characters. You can see why it's a good/bad idea there before suggesting huge changes to this game.

Don't bring Battleborn into this just because it has melee characters. That really doesn't have anything to do with this. If you wanna play that card, here is a list of random games that have melee characters:
For Honor
Team Fortress 2
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare
Blitz Brigade
Mount and Blade
World of Warcraft
The Elder Scrolls Online


These don't have anything to do with my idea either. I believe my standard for these ideas was Reinhardt (from Overwatch), not any character from Battleborn or any of these games.

reinhardt is also one of the buggest characters, and many people only use him for his other abilities.
Actually, just up intill a recent patch, His HAMMER was bugged, only hitting enemies at the end of a swing.
So you want one of the buggest characters to be in paladins?
Why?

[Kjurak]

Tbh, he's trying too hard to make this game like other games. Just because other games have melee doesn't mean this game should implement them just to add "diversity" for the sake of variation.

[Toyfan1]

Messaggio originale di Kjurak:

Tbh, he's trying too hard to make this game like other games. Just because other games have melee doesn't mean this game should implement them just to add "diversity" for the sake of variation.

^
Truth

[Jackalope™]

Messaggio originale di Kjurak:

Tbh, he's trying too hard to make this game like other games. Just because other games have melee doesn't mean this game should implement them just to add "diversity" for the sake of variation.

Okay. Let's keep this as a discussion of ideas. You can critique my ideas all you want, but ad hominem attacks are not acceptable. Aside from being rude, ad hominem attacks are fallacies, and they don't make your case any stronger.

[Jackalope™]

Messaggio originale di Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior:

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

Paladins is a really great game. It provides fun, and challenging Overwatch-caliber gameplay at the cost of nothing. However, there's something it really lacks. And I mean REALLY lacks.

Melee combat. It simply does not exist in Paladins.

The closest thing to melee is Maeve's pounce attack or Fernando's flamethrower-lance-thingy. Before I go any further, I'd like to address a common argument against melee in Paladins:
"It's hard to get close to any enemy in Paladins because literally everyone's weapon is a projectile."
This is true. Squishy characters (e.g. Skye, Ying, etc...) have a big difficulty getting close to enemies. The simple solution? Don't make melee champions squishy. Either that or allow them to make an easier escape. So without further ado, I would like to propose my idea for implementing melee into Paladins. I can assure you, it will add a ton of variety to the gameplay.

#1: Changing Existing Play-Styles
First off, I would like to suggest that Hi-Rez change the play-style of a few existing champions. Nothing too major, just change the way their weapon works to make it a melee weapon.

Grover: Grover would make THE BEST melee champion in this entire game. He already has a flippin' axe! Wait, he throws it away? That's dumb. How about if Grover used his axe properly as his mouse-1 attack instead of chucking it. Here's my proposition: Grover would deliver a powerful melee swing (dealing 950 base damage in one strike). His mouse-2 attack could still be throwing his axe, and that way he isn't left completely without any ranged attacks. His vine-attack allows him to quickly get in and out of melee range. Over all the other champions in this list, Grover would take the least amount of effort to re-learn his new play-style. Needless to say, Grover is the prime candidate for a melee buff.
!

And that's where I stopped reading.
Grover WAS a melee champion.
And he sucked.

Makoa is the perfect melee champ currently.
He has range yet his ult gives the perfect amount of melee that should be in the game.
A single ability, for a short amount of time.

A new champ would be great, if they had a melee alt attack, and thats all.
Simple.
But a melee only champ?
Done that, and it failed.

I've said this many times before. Grover's melee DID suck, yes. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't ever be a melee champion. Just because something doesn't work the first time, that doesn't mean it will never work and we might as well stomp it out of existence. Please read the previous posts before repeating something someone else has already said and I have rebutted.

[Toyfan1]

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

Messaggio originale di Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior:

And that's where I stopped reading.
Grover WAS a melee champion.
And he sucked.

Makoa is the perfect melee champ currently.
He has range yet his ult gives the perfect amount of melee that should be in the game.
A single ability, for a short amount of time.

A new champ would be great, if they had a melee alt attack, and thats all.
Simple.
But a melee only champ?
Done that, and it failed.

I've said this many times before. Grover's melee DID suck, yes. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't ever be a melee champion. Just because something doesn't work the first time, that doesn't mean it will never work and we might as well stomp it out of existence.

why waste develope time trying to change something that doesn't need changing? we already have few worth-while support champions, why make less?

[Jackalope™]

Messaggio originale di Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior:

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

Don't bring Battleborn into this just because it has melee characters. That really doesn't have anything to do with this. If you wanna play that card, here is a list of random games that have melee characters:
For Honor
Team Fortress 2
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare
Blitz Brigade
Mount and Blade
World of Warcraft
The Elder Scrolls Online


These don't have anything to do with my idea either. I believe my standard for these ideas was Reinhardt (from Overwatch), not any character from Battleborn or any of these games.

reinhardt is also one of the buggest characters, and many people only use him for his other abilities.
Actually, just up intill a recent patch, His HAMMER was bugged, only hitting enemies at the end of a swing.
So you want one of the buggest characters to be in paladins?
Why?

I would just like to point out that you just rebutted yourself. I would like to thank you for making my job easier. Here is the recap for those who are confused:

"Actually, just up intill a recent patch, His HAMMER was bugged, only hitting enemies at the end of a swing."

Up until recently? Oh, so it DOES work. His hammer was bugged and then they fixed it. That's why melee champions will never work? Because Reinhardt had a bug? You know who else had a bug? Every. Overwatch. Character. Ever. I'm not making this up. Look it up.
But everyone loves them so it does really matter I guess...

[Jackalope™]

Messaggio originale di Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior:

Messaggio originale di Jackalope™:

I've said this many times before. Grover's melee DID suck, yes. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't ever be a melee champion. Just because something doesn't work the first time, that doesn't mean it will never work and we might as well stomp it out of existence.

why waste develope time trying to change something that doesn't need changing? we already have few worth-while support champions, why make less?

That is a terrible attitude. I'm not "wasting" time. You simply do not agree with me. That's great! You have a differing opinion! I respect that. Let us discuss! Give me your arguments and I will give you mine. That's how discussion works. I could say that you are wasting time by attempting to squash my opinion for being a "waste of time". But I won't! In the long run, none of this matters. I would simply like to see my idea implemented and I would like others thoughts on it. But don't call it a waste of time. Doing that is simply, well, "a waste of time". Haha!

[karen of mental illness]

paladins devs said no melee champs. grover was already melee but it was a mess. <3

[Jackalope™]

Messaggio originale di pegasi:

paladins devs said no melee champs. grover was already melee but it was a mess. <3

I don't recall ever hearing this. Are you able to back up this bold claim?