How can a pinball table be "hard"?

[NoodlePunk]

Some of the table reviews call certain tables very difficult and very hard. I don't see how hitting a ball with a unmovable paddle to be a difficulty scale, there is no way to use game plans or strategy.

[Pinballwiz45b]

That depends on the table design and how a game is set up. The Nightmare difficulty on Doom, for instance, removes all kickbacks and extra balls. Tournament mode on Williams sets up a game designed for competition play, like PAPA or IFPA.

Attack From Mars is brutally difficult under tournament settings here.

[NoodlePunk]

I played both 3 and FX, I think some of the reviews are saying FX's bad physics are a difficulty. FX has issues, the awe of how cool the tables looked died after my ball went falling from the top middle to far left gutter somehow, then 4 directly middle gutters. I had longer play times in 3, probably had 4x as long playtime on 1 table in 3 over the quick 1 minute max playtime on a FX table.

[Pinballwiz45b]

Originally posted by NoodlePunk:

I played both 3 and FX, I think some of the reviews are saying FX's bad physics are a difficulty.

Probably a skill issue then. I play machines in real life; no two models play exactly alike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUdRAKlcRh4

EDIT: If you're playing just the "Single Player" mode, that has the easier physics setting. Classic Single Player has the new physics applied and is closer to real life.

[ItsFlashMF]

I've played since the first pinball fx and zen pinball i've played every table they've ever released and the physics have gotten worse with every iteration. pinball fx3 lets crazy ♥♥♥♥ lead my ball down one of my boots or even directly between my flippers with no point of contact. This is very common on more than half the tables. Pinball fx2 really only displayed this problem so prominently on the rocky and bullwinkle table which was removed from all stores long before the game stopped releasing dlc. a good portion of these tables are on both games meaning you can test and compare these yourself.

[Phil Mabole]

Originally posted by ItsFlashMF:

I've played since the first pinball fx and zen pinball i've played every table they've ever released and the physics have gotten worse with every iteration. pinball fx3 lets crazy ♥♥♥♥ lead my ball down one of my boots or even directly between my flippers with no point of contact. This is very common on more than half the tables. Pinball fx2 really only displayed this problem so prominently on the rocky and bullwinkle table which was removed from all stores long before the game stopped releasing dlc. a good portion of these tables are on both games meaning you can test and compare these yourself.

May I ask why you keep buying something that is getting progressively worse as that would be a lot of money to throw away? (to me anyways)

[Knowsome]

in my opinion OP:

• hard hurry-ups (you must hit or do something in a timeframe to score high, sometimes multiple actions (x-men juggernaut hurry up is a good example, where you must hit his ramp 3 times to score) and Star wars masters of the force, have very unforgiving hurry-ups.
  
• Hungry outlanes, any table with very easy to a ball lost due to a wide outlane is one of the main reasons i lose balls, Black Rose is probably the best example of this.
  
• Deadly Middle Areas in the middle lane, this is a problem on every single william's table compared to zen's tables, the space between the two flippers where you can lose the ball in the middle. Again Black rose, Medieval madness, and Road Show are the worst outliers when it comes to middle lane ball losses.
  
• Hard to achieve conditions to even begin scoring, Tesla and V12 are the worst outliers when it comes to that, and one of the tables i despise the most.
  
• Hard Multiball conditions, again subjective, but if you ever think in a way to score as fast as possible and as much as possible in a small time frame is Multiball , tables like Excalibur are very hard to get a multi ball going.

TL:DR - anything that makes losing balls easier, and mass scoring harder.

[Pinballwiz45b]

Originally posted by ItsFlashMF:

I've played since the first pinball fx and zen pinball i've played every table they've ever released and the physics have gotten worse with every iteration.

Hard disagree, the exact opposite took place. I play real pinball and they're as close as you'll get in this day. The original FX is very primitive.

Draining is something EVERYONE does, like it or not. If you don't drain, games WILL last forever and pinball will get boring quickly. If you're complaining about the ball draining more often, learn from your mistakes and play better.

Originally posted by Kanashi:

in my opinion OP:

• Hungry outlanes, any table with very easy to a ball lost due to a wide outlane is one of the main reasons i lose balls, Black Rose is probably the best example of this.
  
• Deadly Middle Areas in the middle lane, this is a problem on every single william's table compared to zen's tables, the space between the two flippers where you can lose the ball in the middle. Again Black rose, Medieval madness, and Road Show are the worst outliers when it comes to middle lane ball losses.

TL:DR - anything that makes losing balls easier, and mass scoring harder.

Welcome to pinball. Go out and play some of these machines, you'll find they'll behave in some of the same ways.

[ItsFlashMF]

Originally posted by Pinballwiz45b:

Originally posted by ItsFlashMF:

I've played since the first pinball fx and zen pinball i've played every table they've ever released and the physics have gotten worse with every iteration.

Hard disagree, the exact opposite took place. I play real pinball and they're as close as you'll get in this day. The original FX is very primitive.

Draining is something EVERYONE does, like it or not. If you don't drain, games WILL last forever and pinball will get boring quickly. If you're complaining about the ball draining more often, learn from your mistakes and play better.

Originally posted by Kanashi:

in my opinion OP:

• Hungry outlanes, any table with very easy to a ball lost due to a wide outlane is one of the main reasons i lose balls, Black Rose is probably the best example of this.
  
• Deadly Middle Areas in the middle lane, this is a problem on every single william's table compared to zen's tables, the space between the two flippers where you can lose the ball in the middle. Again Black rose, Medieval madness, and Road Show are the worst outliers when it comes to middle lane ball losses.

TL:DR - anything that makes losing balls easier, and mass scoring harder.

Welcome to pinball. Go out and play some of these machines, you'll find they'll behave in some of the same ways.

the drains im speaking about aren't tied to skill at all and pinball machines like this in real life have been configured to make you spend more quarters done not by the creators of the tables but by the arcades and restaurants that host them. i don't think digital pinball needs to be rigged in the same way as there is no quarters to be made from it.

[Pinballwiz45b]

Originally posted by ItsFlashMF:

the drains im speaking about aren't tied to skill at all

Draining is a skill. Everyone drains; learn from them and learn how to save the ball. Luck is a small factor.

EM's exhibit this kind of behavior more often than modern-day games like Zen puts out. I reckon these kinds of drains happen less than 20% of the time if you're skilled enough to save a ball from draining.

You miss a shot on a modern game and drain as a consequence? 100% your fault. Play better.

[Vyvyvn]

V12.

That is all.