Real multiple monitors support

[markeen]

Over the last two years I started two threads regarding multiple monitors issues:

Add an option to select the startup monitor
https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/1520386297687656465/

ALT+ENTER doesn't work anymore on my second monitor
https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/1729828401693594233/

None of these threads received an 'official' answer.
So I'm trying my luck again...

Your game is very polished except when it comes to multi-monitors support:
- There is no option to select the startup monitor (can be worked around).
- It is impossible to play full screen on a secondary portrait monitor (can also be worked around check discussion below).
- If you want the backglass on another monitor then you have to enable the cabinet mode and:
- It requires activation code
- It requires the user to provide the backglass pictures
- It requires the input of coordinates and sizes in pixels
- Lots of fiddling around
- In the end you get a static picture backglass with a dot matrix display somewhat in the correct place...

All this is incomprehensible when compared to the polishing level of the rest of the game.
I would expect a simple option available to multi-monitors users like :
- Startup Monitor : <Display 1>
- Backglass Monitor : <Display 2>
Add gfx settings for each display and that is it ! From there the game should do the rest: One camera pointing at the playfield on Display 1 and one camera pointing at the backglass on Display 2. This way we would even have animated backglasses...

Why does FX3 seems so lacking in the multi monitors department ? Is there something planned for this part of the game ?
Thank you for reading and for a great game.

[No_CLU]

I wonder if part of this problem is misuse as cabinet in real arcade. I have heard comments on this before.
FX3 ports mapped for doflinx already, so have to wounder more cabinet support from publisher coming.

[markeen]

Since when are virtual cabinets a real problem ?

I've read this "explanation" multiple times but I have never seen or heard of virtual cabinets being used in a commercial environment. Does anyone have an example of this ? Do pinball companies like Stern really fear revenue loss because of virtual cabinets ? This sounds silly to me.

Anyone liking pinball knows that you can't really compare a video game to a real machine. I really like FX3 but I also have 3 pinball machines at home and I can tell you that FX3 Roadshow is good but nowhere near the real thing.

Anyway if this is the reason why FX3 doesn't have real multiple monitors support then please tell us.

[LynnInDenver]

I think it relates specifically one of the licenses attached to their original tables based on other intellectual property, with the need to enforce the "home use only" aspect of the software as part of it, basically that they "need proof that the cabinet mode is intended only for a home environment", where whether or not it's realistic that operators would actually plunk a virtual cabinet into a location, the licensor doesn't want that to be part of it, or wants much more money for it to be done without the gatekeeping (commercial license fee versus the home use only license fee), possibly an order or two of magnitude difference in the cost. It's been in place since FX2 that you needed to send a message and attach a photo of your setup to get cabinet mode unlocked.

And honestly, other virtual pinball like Visual Pinball actually has very similar issues with multiple monitor support. It's much harder to set it up to use something other than the "primary" monitor for the playfield, and there's other issues like "these tables are provided as full screen landscape, we recommend you just deal with that as it is than trying to make it portrait because that's the way it's always been done and it's at best much more work for yourself".

Using the static picture for a backglass isn't a big deal for their tables; they provide a link to where pictures are hosted to use, and you can always provide different pictures to fit your particular build, and they don't require any functionality beyond what's basically a static translite anyway..

[LynnInDenver]

I'd recommend bringing it up with Zen directly, then, that this is a break in the immersion for a cabinet/multiple monitor user. I don't use FX3 on our cabinet here, partly because I'm keeping it offline right now, partly that VP tends to give a slightly better experience on the cabinet, and partly because I'd had issues with the front end I was trying to use earlier causing oddities in FX2.

[JLou56BZH]

Hi, you can do this with "Bordeless Gaming"... On my cab, my backglass is my default screen, my playfield is configured in portrait in windows... Configure PBFX3 in wndowed mode, and with Borderless Gaming software, you can choose to delete border and on which screen you want to fit the game. So, if you don't have the code for cabinet mode, you need to have your playfield screen by default.

After, you can use DOFLINX to use Dynamic Backglass like Visual Pinball

[markeen]

Thank you JLou, your comment made me want to try to tweak my setup again and I managed to get a 'full screen' game on my secondary portrait monitor by starting the game in windowless mode and moving it to the second monitor with WindowManager.

But again we all should be able to do this without installing additional software. The game supports wide and portait mode, and even dynamic resizing ! Why not just include the 'startup monitor' option ? Forget about the backglass on the other monitor if it that much of a problem but please add the option to select the monitor on which the game will run.

[mikeydsc]

I am guessing the code will make it much harder for hackers to separate the views of the main table and the backglass score panel. If there was no code, someone could crack it quickly and then put it up on a torrent site for others to use a hacked exe and then use it commercially.

To me you are just screwing with your customers, which 98 to 99% are probably the honest sort and the other 1 or 2 % will do it anyways no matter what. Download a pick of someones cabinet from the internet and send it to the devs. How do they know its not yours?

[markeen]

The argument about the commercial use of virtual pinball comes back regularly but does anyone have a documented example of it ?
It would have to be wide spread to worry manufacturers like Stern. And if it was it would probably be visible both on location and in sales.
Does 'commercial use of virtual pinball' even require multi-monitors support ? If you'd want to setup a paying FX3 cabinet, why would you require a secondary monitor ? Why not go cheap with a static generic backglass or no backglass at all ? I mean you'd have to be some special 'thief' to setup a paying cabinet but worry about the authenticity of the thing... or does someone think that the 'general public' can't make the difference between a video game and the real thing ?
I mean this whole argument doesn't make any sense to me. Can anyone enlighten me ?

[AcadDude]

There are several Visual Pinball cabinets in bars, skating rinks and bowling alleys. It is pretty rare but is a real thing.

[AcadDude]

Visual Pinball has coin in switches that work with real coin doors. FX3 doesn't but if set to free play then there isn't a need to add coins. Maybe then it is an hourly charge at the door.

[markeen]

I don't deny the existence of virtual cabinet but I doubt that they widely exist in a commercial environment. If anyone has a photo of a virtual cabinet used commercially please show us.

And again why would you require multiple monitors support to charge for it ?
We ourselves already pay for a game without real multiple monitor support...

[JLou56BZH]

@markeen do you test portrait mode with Borderless Gaming app?

[markeen]

As stated in my third post :

Originally posted by markeen:

Thank you JLou, your comment made me want to try to tweak my setup again and I managed to get a 'full screen' game on my secondary portrait monitor by starting the game in windowless mode and moving it to the second monitor with WindowManager.

So yes you can get FX3 to run on a secondary portrait monitor by using various external apps. Please Zen add a 'startup monitor" option and free us from external apps.

[wilbers]

It will be interesting to see if any of this changes when the Arcade1UP cabinets release (ptototypes don't have backglass image on a second monitor, but they do have a separate screen for the DMD).

[markeen]

Interesting these Arcade1UP cabinets... But as you stated they don't even have a back-glass monitor ! Another nail in the coffin of the "bad monitor support because of commercial pincabs" argument.