Fix virtual plungers Zen!

[Yamfinger]

I tried posting this in their official forums but almost 24 hours later and the mods haven't approved it (my account there is new).

Could you fix Pinscape plunger support via 360 controller emulators on a PC? Cabinet owners have been asking for this for well over a year now.

Windows sees the plungers properly. The controller emulator (in most cases x360ce) sees them properly. But within FX3 you apparently apply a deadzone that doesn't allow for one for one physical/virtual plunger movement. This probably makes sense as a 360 analog stick might otherwise appear too finicky but we need to turn this 'feature' off for plunger use.

Without the ability to toggle or calibrate this IN GAME we are pretty much dead in the water. The best results I can get are:

Pull plunger out about 1-2 inches before in game plunger moves at all...travel is then apparently linear and maxes out in game when the physical plunger does.

This defeats the whole purpose of a physical plunger and I end up just using a button. Which is a shame considering some of the cool skill shots you've designed.

It may be easy for me to say this as I already have a code but I'd gladly pay a small fee for a cabinet code if it meant you guys would take cabinet mode more seriously!

[Gabura]

I agree official support/calibration would be very welcome, I use pinscape too but beside the deadzone problem I do still have full plunger control and no real problem getting skill shots. When you calibrate in pinscape software make sure you use the whole potentiometer if possible but I dont know how yours is mounted ( push plunger at calibration start and pull out the whole plunger)

[Yamfinger]

Zen is actually starting to get on my #$&+ list about this.

I created an account on their official forums to discuss this and so far everything is blocked behind mod approval. This is a common practice with new accounts so I'm not entirely ready to cry conspiracy but I've never had a legitimate post wait this long to go live and this isn't my first internet rodeo.

I'll be screaming bloody murder about this until they fix it. I imagine the code involved hasn't been touched in ages but they could probably still fix it in a day. Just give us the option to turn off the internally imposed deadzone on a Xbox controller's analog stick and I imagine it would work perfectly!

And if they don't have a Pinscape controller to test with it probably costs all of $50 to build one!

I'd seriously love to crown Zen Studios as the peak virtual pinball creator despite the controversy over art censorship etc but this plunger stuff is really amateur hour. Considering that you take three or more skill shots a game it's as important to me as accurate flipper physics when I comes to suspending my disbelief that I'm playing a simulation.

[No_CLU]

Payback time Yamfinger for the nudge tip

Under 37. Plunger various options:
http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/BuildGuideV2/BuildGuide.php?custom=EU&expver=R3.201602xx&sid=toc

I have my plunger working fine with FX3, TPA & Wicked. Output showing on X360ce as Right analog stick fully back. But sometimes need recalibration in Pinscape for deadzone.

My setup just simple potentiometer connected to real plunger using printed part from this forum topic on "Simple Mouse Plunger":
https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=38064&page=1

If I had not already worked hard on potentiometer & Pinscape controller setup which included nudge. I would have used this simple mouse option.

Hope this helps.

[Gabura]

Originally posted by No_CLU:

Payback time Yamfinger for the nudge tip

Under 37. Plunger various options:
http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/BuildGuideV2/BuildGuide.php?custom=EU&expver=R3.201602xx&sid=toc

I have my plunger working fine with FX3, TPA & Wicked. Output showing on X360ce as Right analog stick fully back. But sometimes need recalibration in Pinscape for deadzone.

My setup just simple potentiometer connected to real plunger using printed part from this forum topic on "Simple Mouse Plunger":
https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=38064&page=1

If I had not already worked hard on potentiometer & Pinscape controller setup which included nudge. I would have used this simple mouse option.

Hope this helps.

Did you get wicked to work with X360ce? Could not get it to work, same for Zaccaria

[No_CLU]

Might be due to WHERE you place X360ce.
Needs to be in steamapps/common/Pinball Wicked/Pinballwicked/Binaries/Win32
In this folder you will find "PinballWicked-Win32-Shipping.exe", put x360ce.exe and xinput1_3.dll in there. Along with your x360ce.ini if you already have one setup.

[Gabura]

Originally posted by No_CLU:

Might be due to WHERE you place X360ce.
Needs to be in steamapps/common/Pinball Wicked/Pinballwicked/Binaries/Win32
In this folder you will find "PinballWicked-Win32-Shipping.exe", put x360ce.exe and xinput1_3.dll in there. Along with your x360ce.ini if you already have one setup.

I’ll check it out thanks

[Yamfinger]

Originally posted by No_CLU:

Payback time Yamfinger for the nudge tip

Under 37. Plunger various options:
http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/BuildGuideV2/BuildGuide.php?custom=EU&expver=R3.201602xx&sid=toc

I have my plunger working fine with FX3, TPA & Wicked. Output showing on X360ce as Right analog stick fully back. But sometimes need recalibration in Pinscape for deadzone.

My setup just simple potentiometer connected to real plunger using printed part from this forum topic on "Simple Mouse Plunger":
https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=38064&page=1

If I had not already worked hard on potentiometer & Pinscape controller setup which included nudge. I would have used this simple mouse option.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. I've seen the mouse plunger setup and if I understand your post correctly that's what you're currently using.

And while I definitely appreciate the advice and you taking the time to write it I won't be doing that. :)

Zen should be embarrassed that people are having to resort to Rube Goldberg style mice on a leash to get a working plunger in FX3. I consider Pinscape in its many incarnations with or without gamepad emulation to be the standard and they should support it.

I literally have one to one plunger to analog stick via x360ce working PERFECTLY outside of the game. The way they have the analog stick working in game is the problem. And I'll be dying on that hill until they fix it.

[No_CLU]

Modified mouse plunger model and added potentiometer not mouse. Which is directly linked to KL25Z and Pinscape software.

[Yamfinger]

Originally posted by No_CLU:

Modified mouse plunger model and added potentiometer not mouse. Which is directly linked to KL25Z and Pinscape software.

Sorry. I realize you're trying to explain but I'm not getting it. I'll look into mouse options at some point to better understand what you're describing.

Mine is a 3D printed 'rail' with a potentiometer wired directly to the KL25Z attached to a physical plunger. Pinscape calibrates it properly. X360 sees it properly (meaning the rest position is a centered right Analog stick. If I push the plunger in slightly the right analog moves up slightly). If I pull the plunger back the analog stick in x360ce immediately moves...appears to move in direct relation to the physical plunger and stops at the end of the analog sticks throw when the plunger stops.

In FX3 I'll load something like Infinity Gauntlet that has a visual indicator. When I pull back the physical plunger nothing happens in game until the plunger has already moved an inch or so. Then the visual meter starts moving. It tops out when the plunger physically reaches the end of it's throw.

So I can play a table with a meter like IG by watching the meter but other games require more guessing.

[No_CLU]

Can you post screen shot of Pinscape Config Tool screen showing "Live Sensor View" showing plunger numbers and deadzone?
Hope to compare with my setup and see if this offers any information you can use.

[Yamfinger]

Originally posted by No_CLU:

Modified mouse plunger model and added potentiometer not mouse. Which is directly linked to KL25Z and Pinscape software.

Does it have anything to do with this?

https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?s=5ba23fec8c02e232c10714d7a985e2f7&showtopic=38064&page=2

[Yamfinger]

Originally posted by No_CLU:

Can you post screen shot of Pinscape Config Tool screen showing "Live Sensor View" showing plunger numbers and deadzone?
Hope to compare with my setup and see if this offers any information you can use.

Thanks. Let me see what I can do. Might be later today or tomorrow. I have some parenting to do. :)

[Yamfinger]

My Pinscape sensor view.

Pinscape Calibration
https://imgur.com/gallery/Of1iss9

[Moose.]

Plunger works fine for me, you just need to configure the right settings. I doubt Zen would ever add support or settings for analog plungers since they are basically DiY and every system is built different.


Stick axis Y = IHAxis 3

Set the anti-deadzone to around 40% (you'll need to trial and error this to get the best number)

Dead zone 2%

Sensitive 95% Invert

Enjoy.

[Yamfinger]

Originally posted by Zed:

Plunger works fine for me, you just need to configure the right settings. I doubt Zen would ever add support or settings for analog plungers since they are basically DiY and every system is built different.


Stick axis Y = IHSxis 3

Set the anti-deadzone to around 40% (you'll need to trial and error this to get the best number)

Dead zone 2%

Sensitive 95% Invert

Enjoy.

First off all thanks for the advice. I'll try it.

But I don't think it will work.

I'm already getting one for one plunger movement outside of FX3. So I'd be shocked if any changes outside of FX3 change how the input is handled by FX3 internally. And while i haven't used those exact settings I HAVE attempted to use anti dead zones etc.

I also disagree that there are too many custom configs out there for them to bother fixing since ultimately they all work on the same principles. I don't think FX3 currently uses the inputs 'cleanly' and that's the problem.

As a goof I added tape to the plunger rod last night so it couldn't go in all the way and started at the end of FX3's deadzone. That actually sort of worked! Except that they apparently have a 'failsafe' coded that you can't press 'Launch to Start' with the right analog stick moved because I had to press the plunger inward before it would accept Enter to start the game.