Without a parry mechanic there wont be much counter play

[Bane]

Imagine you are in the world of Conan Exiles and you have a one handed sword. You are met by one enemy who wants to kill you also armed with a one handed sword.

You have to:

A. Keep your distance and hope he swings and misses first so you can get first hit.
B. Run at him swinging wildly and hope he misses his wild swings more than you.
C. Dodge around and swing wildly and hope he doesnt dodge as well as you and hit you with his wild swings.

That is pretty much it here. And this is just the 1v1 aspect. There is zero counter/riposte play at all. Now I know that when someone has a sheild they can block and stagger and to "counter" you need to use power attacks or get a two handed maul to break the sheild. But that really burdens gameplay.

Think of all the good melee pvp games out such as Mount and Blade, Chivalry Medieval Warfare, even War of the Roses that came and went. All of these games allow the player to be very skillful in timing their parries, utalizing strong footwork, and allow the player to become a badass using what ever load out they choose if they got good enough. In those games you dont run around with 5 different weapons to use willy nilly because your opponenet has a different weapon. This isnt an RTS with unit counters. Melee pvp games are all about skill and fast reaction.

Now imagine you have a clan of 20 guys and you fight against another clan of 20. Your survival rate is probably 10 percent since everyone is just going to be mosh pitting wildly swinging. Once sheilds are gone it will just be chaotic lucky mouse clicking. This game desperately needs a parry mechaic.

I am pleased they added a dodge system but do you really want small scale fights to really come down to who misses first and who makes the first mistake? Just ♥♥♥♥♥ footing around until someone misses? This is the world of Conan the Barbarian! This is where you lock swords with your enemy and clash steel with steel. Not hop around and then swing wildly without any sort of blade mastery.

[Snidi]

a parry that blocks only a portion of the damage would be perfect it would still be interesting and useful in dense formation and all out balls to the wall fight will maintaining the utility of the dodge in open space.

[Bane]

Publicado originalmente por Belphegor:

a parry that blocks only a portion of the damage would be perfect it would still be interesting and useful in dense formation and all out balls to the wall fight will maintaining the utility of the dodge in open space.

This! Very solid suggestion!

[Hallskar]

Publicado originalmente por --{-ZEVA-Darth Bane:

Honestly if you thought that combat was good then Im sorry but I would have to disagree entirely. What they showed us was just a small group of people wildly hacking and slashing without any finesse.

I agree that it's not perfect, but they are also not experts at their own game yet, even they have to tweak everything and try to stay up to date on how to be better.

Publicado originalmente por --{-ZEVA-Darth Bane:

The systems that they have in place are very good and I don't disagree with that. But they make up maybe half of a good melee combat experience. It was literally just hacking and slashing and chaotic without any strike and riposte combat which (you can debate the realism for or against) would be much more thematic and much more FUN.

From playing Chivalry, Of Kings and Men, Mount & Blade- I'm going to take the system we have now, and see what we as a community can suggest, but this looks by far, more than a 'Hack n Slash' game. Just like the other three games I mentioned, they all have their own challenging uniqueness to them. I see Conan having the same, just without the traditional mechanics.

[Von Pink]

Publicado originalmente por --{-ZEVA-Darth Bane:

Publicado originalmente por Belphegor:

a parry that blocks only a portion of the damage would be perfect it would still be interesting and useful in dense formation and all out balls to the wall fight will maintaining the utility of the dodge in open space.

This! Very solid suggestion!

but that's not a parry... if you attempt a parry and take damage then you failed and just performed a kind of poor block with your weapon. if that's the kind of thing you want just use a shield to block instead of blocking with the weapon.

without reading all the devs responses on the matter i can tell they're trying to foster specific types of gameplay, part of it is if you want to be able to intercept incoming damage you need a shield equipped. if you want to avoid taking the blow you need to dodge out of the way, not parry it. i'm sure that's a kind of balancing to prevent people getting so good with big 2h weapons being able to just stand there parrying everything as if they have a tower shiled. if you want to put out big damage while swinging for the fences with a 2hander.... you sacrafice the ability to block. maybe they'll change it in the future.

[Snidi]

Publicado originalmente por Von Pink:

Publicado originalmente por --{-ZEVA-Darth Bane:

This! Very solid suggestion!

but that's not a parry... if you attempt a parry and take damage then you failed and just performed a kind of poor block with your weapon. if that's the kind of thing you want just use a shield to block instead of blocking with the weapon.

the point is not to replace the shield as the main static defence but rather bring some variety to the gameplay by allowing more option to your defense which is important in you know a survival game, as for the fact of not blocking the damage of course its not how its supposed to work but in order to add this mechanic without rendering the shield or dodge useless in comparison, in order to avoid this

Publicado originalmente por Von Pink:

people getting so good with big 2h weapons being able to just stand there parrying everything as if they have a tower shiled.

as for that example i don't know many games with this kind of stuff happening and i don't think its a good example because its obviously only a bad parry system which can allow this kind of stuff

[electro]

no parry system = I will only be using the bow lol

[Renjimaru]

Recently been playing Tiger Knight: Empire war, Chinese game made by netdragon.
The setup they have is shields can block anything (yeah they have a durability, So they'll shatter)
But as we all know to parry a blow, We must move our weapon into correct position/direction to do so, That being said, All a shield needs to do is be in the way of incoming weapon to block/rebound it.

Parrying requires you to hold your weapon a certain way, IE a over the head hammer strike is coming at you, Your going to have to hold your sword in a high stance or its obviously just going to crush you.

But as belph said, Your not trying to replace the shield completely, Your trying to find alternatives to not using a shield. As a shield should ALWAYS be the highest damage reduction/rebound and such.

Defintely a good way to give that feel is make parry only block quick strikes/thrusts. Aka spammed hits. And have no chance at fully blocking a power attack or a well placed combo. (Which you can consider a guard breaker. As thats pretty much what it is). As not even a shield can do that effectively without breaking

Edit: Could also make a parrying system from colliding weapons. (Such as if one person tries to strike right and the other tries left, Your weapons are obviously going to clash. assuming your both facing eachother.)
But these are all luxury feature ideas.. That all require a fair amount of current adjustments in scripts/code.

But i'm gonna sink my fangs in before i complain too much. I have a feeling it will be delightfully sweet regardless of parry. But thats just me ~

[Von Pink]

Publicado originalmente por Belphegor:

the point is not to replace the shield as the main static defence but rather bring some variety to the gameplay by allowing more option to your defense which is important in you know a survival game, as for the fact of not blocking the damage of course its not how its supposed to work but in order to add this mechanic without rendering the shield or dodge useless in comparison, in order to avoid this

it would just be extra effort puting it in the game that people wouldn't use. when given the option to dodge and take no damage or "block" and take reduced damage, people will choose to dodge. until we all get our hands on the game though it's probably best no to pass judgement just yet. also it's not like they can't add that mechanic in if people really do want it.

Publicado originalmente por Belphegor:

as for that example i don't know many games with this kind of stuff happening and i don't think its a good example because its obviously only a bad parry system which can allow this kind of stuff

easily the most popular game people point at to referencing melee combat, mount&blade, lets the player parry forever as long as they time it and succeed in spotting the rock/paper/scissors attacks. good players with 2h swords are practically gods as long as they're not facing weapons with crushing blows that pass through.

[Bane]

Publicado originalmente por Von Pink:

Publicado originalmente por --{-ZEVA-Darth Bane:

This! Very solid suggestion!

if you want to avoid taking the blow you need to dodge out of the way, not parry it. i'm sure that's a kind of balancing to prevent people getting so good with big 2h weapons being able to just stand there parrying everything as if they have a tower shiled. if you want to put out big damage while swinging for the fences with a 2hander.... you sacrafice the ability to block. maybe they'll change it in the future.

The game should not limit the skill ceiling. Defending oneself is part of being a skillful player. Having a directionl block system makes it so a player can not, as you said, parry everything like a tower sheild. A timed block also makes it so a player can not parry everything like a tower sheild.

The game should have a very high skill ceiling. The game is not out yet so nothing is for certain. But from what we saw, at a competetive level all a player has to master is when to dodge, and how to use a sheild. This is melee combat only. All the weapons have some variety in terms of their reach and swing speed but if a player simply learns when to get out of the way and when to swing the player has masterd the combat. Which leaves something to be desired.

As I have stated. This is a melee game using ancient and medieval weapons. A thematic experience of hearing the steel hit steel and mastering how to defend yourself with any weapon using a parry system makes combat intricate and satisfying as opposed to simply dodging and running circles wildly swinging.

The worry I have is that the melee combat will not be done well enough to the point where players will feel this way.

Publicado originalmente por CaptainBob:

no parry system = I will only be using the bow lol

[ɃƵ Crazy Cat Lady]

They wan't to be invincible, AND use a big 2 handed weapon..... get over it.

[Renjimaru]

Publicado originalmente por Christian2222:

They wan't to be invincible, AND use a big 2 handed weapon..... get over it.

Nah i think they just want a more realistic combat style, that involved thought, Not just run and spam (But we have yet to see which method is most effective and if charge spam click/hack and slash is easily dealt with, Which i assume it will be assuming you dont get overwhelmed.)

[ɃƵ Crazy Cat Lady]

It takes 4 power attacks to kill you with a big hammer.... you don't need a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ parry XD.
Duels don't need to be 20 minutes long.

[burningcoals]

Probably a lot like Age Of Conan, which used dodging mostly.

[Renjimaru]

Publicado originalmente por Christian2222:

It takes 4 power attacks to kill you with a big hammer.... you don't need a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ parry XD.
Duels don't need to be 20 minutes long.

That i can agree with, Prolonging the fights even more could defintely make for some worry on my part, I already felt like people were to tanky from what i saw.

But seeing and feeling are pretty big differences, So once again cant wait to sink my fangs in and test for myself.

[Bane]

Publicado originalmente por Ren:

Publicado originalmente por Christian2222:

They wan't to be invincible, AND use a big 2 handed weapon..... get over it.

Nah i think they just want a more realistic combat style, that involved thought, Not just run and spam (But we have yet to see which method is most effective and if charge spam click/hack and slash is easily dealt with, Which i assume it will be assuming you dont get overwhelmed.)

This