Building concerns (overpowerd unraidable base locations)

[Spartanliam115]

ok so iv been thinking about this alot the last few days and it seems becoming a mountain hermit is the best way to play this game. in one of the building trailers you see them building up and ontop of mountins, this in its self is not to bad.

if you combo that with what they said about how close you can build to somone (foundation land claim distance) you could essentually be untouchable by having T1 stairs and a T3 airlock leading up (T3 buildings can only be damaged by explosives) using explosives would destroy the stairs as well cutting you off from the ground and wouldbe attackers.

its then a simple issue of foundation spaming the top of the mountain to stop people building up to you and unlike ark you cant just get on a flying mount to fly up to there base. this would make these spots unraidable.

i know there are plans for catapults but i stil think this would be an issue with foundation spamming unless catapults are overpowerd in that case it would be unfair to everyone els not on a mountain.

i am trying to think of a workaround for this and im wondering if anyone els has considerd this problem?

[Renjimaru]

I highly doubt anything in this game will be un-raidable. Theres never anything thats un-raidable.
Merely which is easier and more difficult. If you get left alone in a survival game (your base) its because
A. your active enough to show your presence,
B. because your liked by the sever or your playing PvE.
C. people dont believe your worth the effort. Meaning they dont think you have loot,
or your base is built in a way they couldnt be bother targeting.

If answered: C > Chances are they will come back for you at a later date once they have less appealing/easier targets.

This is just a survival+ builder genre, It will always be this way in current day.
Litterally nothing is unraidable, Even if you think it is.

Had a tribe bragging on ark that they have a building shell under the map and no one will ever get it.
Cut to > Oneday later, Rafts with balista under the map, Killed the whole building, Dinos fell into the middle of the world.(The eternal white nothing-ness)
GGRIP

[Fenruss]

Originally posted by Ren:

I highly doubt anything in this game will be un-raidable. Theres never anything thats un-raidable.
Merely which is easier and more difficult. If you get left alone in a survival game (your base) its because
A. your active enough to show your presence,
B. because your liked by the sever or your playing PvE.
C. people dont believe your worth the effort. Meaning they dont think you have loot,
or your base is built in a way they couldnt be bother targeting.

If answered: C > Chances are they will come back for you at a later date once they have less appealing/easier targets.

This is just a survival+ builder genre, It will always be this way in current day.
Litterally nothing is unraidable, Even if you think it is.

Had a tribe bragging on ark that they have a building shell under the map and no one will ever get it.
Cut to > Oneday later, Rafts with balista under the map, Killed the whole building, Dinos fell into the middle of the world.(The eternal white nothing-ness)
GGRIP

Truly a battle for the gods may their souls rest in the digital abyss all worlds of data share.

[Malcador, The Sigillite]

Since no one else is going to address the elephant in the room I will. Why should you be able to raid my base? The biggest issue with these kinds of games is base raiding. Nothing turns off people of a game more than having all their hard work wiped because some prick decided they wanted to have a look inside. You all know full well that base raids are not actually PVP, 99% of base raids are offline raiding, ei no actual pvp occurs. Don't be a little ♥♥♥♥♥ and fight like a man face to face on the fields of battle as Crom intended.

[Datawarlock]

Originally posted by Malcador, The Sigillite:

Since no one else is going to address the elephant in the room I will. Why should you be able to raid my base? The biggest issue with these kinds of games is base raiding. Nothing turns off people of a game more than having all their hard work wiped because some prick decided they wanted to have a look inside. You all know full well that base raids are not actually PVP, 99% of base raids are offline raiding, ei no actual pvp occurs. Don't be a little ♥♥♥♥♥ and fight like a man face to face on the fields of battle as Crom intended.

Most people that play these kind of games seriously are well aware going in that anything they do is likely temporary, we're not looking for funcom to try to bring Lego Minifigures back to life, or make the next sims online.

[AwesomeHero]

There will be massive termite-locust type swarms flying at mountain altitude eating all those mountain bases alive ! Ha purge system confirmed

[Renjimaru]

Originally posted by Malcador, The Sigillite:

Since no one else is going to address the elephant in the room I will. Why should you be able to raid my base? The biggest issue with these kinds of games is base raiding. Nothing turns off people of a game more than having all their hard work wiped because some prick decided they wanted to have a look inside. You all know full well that base raids are not actually PVP, 99% of base raids are offline raiding, ei no actual pvp occurs. Don't be a little ♥♥♥♥♥ and fight like a man face to face on the fields of battle as Crom intended.

In all seriousness, It comes with the genre of Persistent PvP....
I understand your question is why is base destroying in these types of games anyway,(offline/online, regardless)
But a pvp game, which allows you to build anything and hide in it forever, Is not pvp.
If a world is persistant, And someone sees you offline, Its pretty much like leaving your door open.

In a survival theme, Your never meant to be truly safe. (When you sleep in the middle of no-where, lets say a big ass hostile gureilla/tribe jungle, Are you truly going to close your eyes and sleep? when anything could be lurking and waiting?)
If you do chances are you'll probably end up tied to a spit and devoured by a ancient tribe of cannibals.(This has been documented in real life, And happens quite regularly in dense parts of the amazon)

Its different if your trying to survive on a paradise island without any one who inhabits those lands... Or the island is inhabited by natives who just happen to worship the colour of your belt buckle(Insert any example here). So they shower you in praise and respect.

Point is... Thats what survival is... Survival is not just a system that requires you to eat/drink.
Like so many think.. Its a bunch of different mechanics and immersions all mixed together,
To try and give you that feeling. Without one part of that immersion (Buildings being ransacked)
Things would just feel somewhat incomplete and flawed.. Cause your like, "Ah okay theres people outside!, I know! I'll hide in my house, Even though they want to devour my flesh in tribute to yog"

If they wanted you... They are coming in to get you was my point.
Offline raiding is a pain in the ass, But so is trying to sleep in the jungle by yourself.
Usually its easier to bring a group of people (Or meet a group of people)
So one of you can take shifts while others sleep. Both in real-life and game survival life
This is 100% needed.

[Datawarlock]

Originally posted by FTR iRage:

Originally posted by Christian2222:

Don't think conan has a tool cupboard system, it just recognizes tha you are the builder.

What about friends who need access?

This guy thinks he's going to solo the internet. In this discussion it's assumed he'll have no friends and he's found the secret to immortality or something. He'll be that guy that quits because a tribe sets up camp below his perfect unraidable spot so he can never come down for food, water, etc.

[ɃƵ Crazy Cat Lady]

Maybe our ''sleeper'' could be controlled by ai when we are offline, and actually get up, and attack things, instead of just sleeping through this raid XD.

[Renjimaru]

Originally posted by Christian2222:

Maybe our ''sleeper'' could be controlled by ai when we are offline, and actually get up, and attack things, instead of just sleeping through this raid XD.

Defintely a decent idea, But i would say the AI would most likely get you killed and looted alot more then its actually doing help haha xD

Example > Disconnect > Ai sees monster > Fight > dead.
>log back in. > sad face.
Granted they could avoid that with a AI timer,
Heres another example > Logout in base > Ai detects nearby player > Opens door > runs to fight
> forgets door.

Might just be the way i see things though xD

[Shoi]

Humans - Determined enough to find a way.

[Reapo]

Originally posted by spartanliam115:

o i fogot to say rusts work around for this was tool cupboards

Originally, Tool cupboards were not the solution to the problem. The TCs in rust use to have a raidus around it going in all directions which prevented unauthorized building access until it was changed to what we all know now.

Originally posted by Datawarlock:

I don't see a problem with this. Destroy the way up, and you also destroy the way down. Hermit dies of starvation or a long drop.

They can also have a bed down at the bottem. Gathering the resources required to get that stair case back up wouldn't be too difficult.

All in all, its something the dev team will have to monitor. Back when Rust started going strong, the oldest trick in the book would be to build an unraidable rock base. Nothing you can really do and it took a year for FP too put in a solution (rockets and ladders). They further nerfed rock bases by changing the tool cupboard system. So, the worry is justified. Brings an imbalance to a game when someone can raid you but you can't raid them. So, if that imbalance exists, hopefully the devs recognize the problem sooner rather than later, and fix it ^.^

[Malcador, The Sigillite]

Originally posted by Ren:

Originally posted by Malcador, The Sigillite:

Since no one else is going to address the elephant in the room I will. Why should you be able to raid my base? The biggest issue with these kinds of games is base raiding. Nothing turns off people of a game more than having all their hard work wiped because some prick decided they wanted to have a look inside. You all know full well that base raids are not actually PVP, 99% of base raids are offline raiding, ei no actual pvp occurs. Don't be a little ♥♥♥♥♥ and fight like a man face to face on the fields of battle as Crom intended.

In all seriousness, It comes with the genre of Persistent PvP....
I understand your question is why is base destroying in these types of games anyway,(offline/online, regardless)
But a pvp game, which allows you to build anything and hide in it forever, Is not pvp.
If a world is persistant, And someone sees you offline, Its pretty much like leaving your door open.

In a survival theme, Your never meant to be truly safe. (When you sleep in the middle of no-where, lets say a big ass hostile gureilla/tribe jungle, Are you truly going to close your eyes and sleep? when anything could be lurking and waiting?)
If you do chances are you'll probably end up tied to a spit and devoured by a ancient tribe of cannibals.(This has been documented in real life, And happens quite regularly in dense parts of the amazon)

Its different if your trying to survive on a paradise island without any one who inhabits those lands... Or the island is inhabited by natives who just happen to worship the colour of your belt buckle(Insert any example here). So they shower you in praise and respect.

Point is... Thats what survival is... Survival is not just a system that requires you to eat/drink.
Like so many think.. Its a bunch of different mechanics and immersions all mixed together,
To try and give you that feeling. Without one part of that immersion (Buildings being ransacked)
Things would just feel somewhat incomplete and flawed.. Cause your like, "Ah okay theres people outside!, I know! I'll hide in my house, Even though they want to devour my flesh in tribute to yog"

If they wanted you... They are coming in to get you was my point.
Offline raiding is a pain in the ass, But so is trying to sleep in the jungle by yourself.
Usually its easier to bring a group of people (Or meet a group of people)
So one of you can take shifts while others sleep. Both in real-life and game survival life
This is 100% needed.

Honestly, my point was that the system of building as it is is a good idea, and if people figure out how to make an unraidable fort, good on them. Unraidable doesnt neccesarily mean unseigeable.
Seiges and raids are two different things. Raids you go in smash stuff and get out with the loot. Seiges take a long time, its all about attrition. you encircle the enemies fort construct your catapults and other seige equipment if you can, and try to starve themout. The point of seiging is to make them either surrender outright or force them to attack you on open ground where they dont have the overwhelming advantage.
The benefit of seiging over raiding on conan would be that it would be all about the pvp. The group inside would be the ones to pull the trugger so to speak about when to counter attack. So when you lose and the attackers get access to your base, well at least you were online to try and stop them.

[Renjimaru]

Originally posted by Malcador, The Sigillite:

Honestly, my point was that the system of building as it is is a good idea, and if people figure out how to make an unraidable fort, good on them. Unraidable doesnt neccesarily mean unseigeable.
Seiges and raids are two different things. Raids you go in smash stuff and get out with the loot. Seiges take a long time, its all about attrition. you encircle the enemies fort construct your catapults and other seige equipment if you can, and try to starve themout. The point of seiging is to make them either surrender outright or force them to attack you on open ground where they dont have the overwhelming advantage.
The benefit of seiging over raiding on conan would be that it would be all about the pvp. The group inside would be the ones to pull the trugger so to speak about when to counter attack. So when you lose and the attackers get access to your base, well at least you were online to try and stop them.

I guess thats true if we are splitting sieges/raids into thier own litteral defintions.
But i wouldnt exactly call "raiding" only a offline thing.

However! I do agree with your point good sir, Atleast about siege/raid, A Litteral Unraidable base is a no-no for me though. Not talking about a super well defended/placed base, Talking litterally untouchable. (A under the ground base that is in a world where no-one can get to besides someone who is exploiting. Weither that exploit is a program aided thing, or a in-game mechanic)
, I dont think the person should be banned, for doing said thing, But they defintely shouldnt have a untouchable base.
(atleast if its really untouchable to anyone in anyway.)

Anyway the siege/raid thing~ Is why i prefer conan's theme/foundation,
Alot more then other survival games. Dont get me wrong i loved alot of other survival games,
Ark holding a special place. But with the theme of alien tech comes.. Well Alien and advanced tech. (IMO) It really takes away from the feeling you get in a siege. (Mainly because theres 10 people who are on a hill not even in a radius of the siege, Taking shots at anyone who is) as a example.

Which once again is why i love CE's style so much. It is going to be alot more face to face combat.

[Malcador, The Sigillite]

Originally posted by Ren:

Originally posted by Malcador, The Sigillite:

Honestly, my point was that the system of building as it is is a good idea, and if people figure out how to make an unraidable fort, good on them. Unraidable doesnt neccesarily mean unseigeable.
Seiges and raids are two different things. Raids you go in smash stuff and get out with the loot. Seiges take a long time, its all about attrition. you encircle the enemies fort construct your catapults and other seige equipment if you can, and try to starve themout. The point of seiging is to make them either surrender outright or force them to attack you on open ground where they dont have the overwhelming advantage.
The benefit of seiging over raiding on conan would be that it would be all about the pvp. The group inside would be the ones to pull the trugger so to speak about when to counter attack. So when you lose and the attackers get access to your base, well at least you were online to try and stop them.

I guess thats true if we are splitting sieges/raids into thier own litteral defintions.
But i wouldnt exactly call "raiding" only a offline thing.

However! I do agree with your point good sir, Atleast about siege/raid, A Litteral Unraidable base is a no-no for me though. Not talking about a super well defended/placed base, Talking litterally untouchable. (A under the ground base that is in a world where no-one can get to besides someone who is exploiting. Weither that exploit is a program aided thing, or a in-game mechanic)
, I dont think the person should be banned, for doing said thing, But they defintely shouldnt have a untouchable base.
(atleast if its really untouchable to anyone in anyway.)

Anyway the siege/raid thing~ Is why i prefer conan's theme/foundation,
Alot more then other survival games. Dont get me wrong i loved alot of other survival games,
Ark holding a special place. But with the theme of alien tech comes.. Well Alien and advanced tech. (IMO) It really takes away from the feeling you get in a siege. (Mainly because theres 10 people who are on a hill not even in a radius of the siege, Taking shots at anyone who is) as a example.

Which once again is why i love CE's style so much. It is going to be alot more face to face combat.

I agree with your point about exploitative base placing in areas that should not be possible. But I will disagree with your stance on unraidable to an extent. A base could be unraidable if you build it properly in the proper location. That is the point where a seige is neccessary. You don't need to seige a camp with some walls, but you would need to seige a castle on the top of a mountain.

Yeah, high tech ruins survival games for sure. It's not really survival if you got super advanced tech in the same way that you are not camping in the woods if you are in a modern home that happens to be in the woods. No doubt with the addition of catapults people will find clever ways to attack the seigers using their own catapults, but you only have so many rocks and without being able to fly...

I am also quite psyched about the combat of conan being so in your face, it will force people to actually get close to things to destroy them.

Ark, oh ark. first 1k hours were great, but they really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ the game up.

[War-dyn]

Originally posted by Christian2222:

Maybe our ''sleeper'' could be controlled by ai when we are offline, and actually get up, and attack things, instead of just sleeping through this raid XD.

As it happens, Chronicles of Elyria plan to do just that.