What to do for new players in mvm :: Team Fortress 2 Mann vs. Machine

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Radioactive Panda has Team Fortress 2

May 1, 2014 @ 2:16pm

What to do for new players in mvm

So I feel bad for the people who just started mvm.

Telling them to go bootcamp is like telling them to go to hell to learn all the bad ways to play mvm so they can be kicked in adv. However, teaching them/telling them what to do in adv mission is stupid because its advanced and the basics should be known/some are just hopeless. And finally doing lower difficulty missions is just like going boot camp.

What do?

Guides only help so much and even then it isnt enough sometimes.

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Showing 1-15 of 22 comments

StarfishAtLarge has Team Fortress 2

May 1, 2014 @ 2:34pm

I usually try and help the bad player if we can afford the half-empty player slot. If they continue in their nooby ways, then what I do next depends on the rest of the team's attitude. If the rest of the team doesn't care, we'll play for a while and watch the bad player and see how they do. If the rest of the team is on board for a kick and I can easily tell the bad player doesn't know what he's doing, then kick.

And I wrote all of that before realizing you mean what the bad player is supposed to do...

Well, you can't help how MvM has become... Oil Spill and Steel Trap nothing but noobs, Mecha and Expert mostly noobs and a few anguished skilled players, and Two Cities semi-reliable yet still suffering from noobs and also from kick-happy jerks.

I've been saying how hard MvM is for new players to get into for a while now; no matter where they go, they'll likely end up reeling from a failure or a votekick. Their best bet at this point would be to read guides, get a feel for the maps in Boot Camp, and:

A) Join Two Cities Mann Up and hope the team understands.

or

B) Play easier Tours in groups.

Kanji Tatsumi has Team Fortress 2

May 1, 2014 @ 2:49pm

For me videos guide How to Play "insert Class" in " insert mission" will help.
Watch how good player play is the first thing they should do. Read some guides, then only they should play at the bootcamp.

If not they will imitate some 7 yr old play style, like going all Engie. I've seen this once in Two Cities.

Sir Zorba

May 1, 2014 @ 4:32pm

If the newbie in question is friendly and shows an interest in improving, I'll always lend a helping hand even if they struggle with the basics, as that's kinda how I got started in Mann Up myself.

If they're being a total asshat then I try once to give some advice, then kick them right the ♥♥♥♥ out.

General advice I'd give to anyone: stick to the meta until you learn the one and outs of the gamemode. Then start learning the off-classes once you've got that down.(slightly hypocritical because I suck at demo and haven't bothered to learn him)

wux

May 1, 2014 @ 5:06pm

Realistically only valve can do something about it, be it allowing to watch games where the average tour count is higher than [insert number] or giving an incentive for new players to play oil spill/steel trap. Valve don't care about mvm though.

The biggest problem is the people themselves. There's no real issue for someone who wants to learn how to play mvm; plenty of guides out there to learn the basics from and, on the whole, there's more friendly than unfriendly people towards players who say they're new and want to learn when they join 2 cities.

The average newbie however seems to be deaf, mute and have little to no understanding of tf2 in the first place. Not really anything anyone can do about that.

Last edited by wux; May 1, 2014 @ 5:08pm

Gothmog

May 1, 2014 @ 6:50pm

Don't think Valve will do something about that. As it is a company, and companies care about moneys of course, they made this 2 Cities Tour with australiums to attract people and make them spend moneys on tickets. That's the reason why australium exist and the reason why it is a random drop and not a skill based drop, so that people just wanna take those weapons and rush on Mann Up to try drop them. I have to say I usually speak with those new Mann Up players to know also some background story by them, and many times some of them answered me something like "Yeah I am new and I have no idea how to play mann up, you seem to be an experienced group please win for me the map so that I can have an australium". Well, that's kinda sad I must say xD I personally will kick everyone that will give me such an answer, don't like people that think others have to do their work to help them have some kind of reward. You want it? Train yourself and get it helping your team-mates. But when I found a new player that: communicate with the team, shows interested to learn how to play good and hear what we are telling him to do, I give them a chance of course. Many times this way I found new players that with our suggestions played yet better that a lot of 50+ tours I saw.

Radioactive Panda has Team Fortress 2

May 1, 2014 @ 7:51pm

I am finding that most do not want to learn but those that do can't because of other player problems at times. Yes i agree with the fact that people should start from bottom up but if the bottom is utter hell then should they start there and learn bad habits? Most of us would troll engie that think dispenser is for themselves and that is exactly what bootcamp does.

From the sound of this. it seems like the best advice would be to start with friends on lower difficulty and work the way up but most of us don't even have 5 friends who are consistently on or always want to mvm.

also what do you say to the soldier who upgrades rocket spec to the max and neglects damage but thinks they are doing good because there are lots of those in mvm. (people think hearing lots of tinks means they are doing work which is one reason why people like engie/pyro)

Draekon

May 1, 2014 @ 11:09pm

I recommended a coaching feature specifically for MvM in another thread. They could easily put any 7+ player for spectating mode only to move between player's views and be able look at their upgrades so they can learn how to play. I got tired of heavies who didn't know how to kill giant medics or body block so I made a guide specifically for 2 Cities. Excuse the blatant advertising. The moderators seem more strict with banning and locking threads lately. I am glad Demopan, the wannabe forum cop, has been banned. Feel free to critic the tips also. I still study player's upgrades and I am still trying to improve myself even with almost 100 tours.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=222214591

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=222208171

PS: The ones who love anti-meta team setups. You really should either make a guide or go more into detail on how to succeed in 2 Cities like there is no spy guide for 2 Cities.

Last edited by Draekon; May 1, 2014 @ 11:19pm

Nihil

May 2, 2014 @ 12:38am

i was looking for mvm guides on yt recently and noticed there is a lack of those, atleast some newer once. i honestly dont think that new players (atleast most of them) are willing to read 3-5 text guides about upgrade ways, loadouts and strategies. its always better for learning if you see how its done and atm there are not many ways to do so (as we already discussed the idea of spectating in mvm). other options would be (besides for new players looking for some friends to try to learn) organizing groups of teachers that take on 1-2 new players and play with them boot camp missions without completely carrying them through but giving them advices on upgrades, positioning etc.

wux

May 2, 2014 @ 8:54am

Originally posted by 2CVFrostl:
organizing groups of teachers that take on 1-2 new players and play with them boot camp missions without completely carrying them through but giving them advices on upgrades, positioning etc.

The problem is that people who would be prepared to do that are going to do fine in mvm anyway.

Let's not pretend mvm is difficult in any way; if someone wants to learn how to play, they'll do just fine. There's plenty of people who started mvm when 2 cities came out and most of those who stuck with it are perfectly capable players.

Sure, you get the 100+ tour 'new' player who buys non-optimal upgrades or crits a heavy on a tank or doesn't understand certain mechanics - they're still capable of playing and finishing the missions, 2 cities anyway.

The people whining about being kicked over and over are the issue and the vast majority of them are deaf and mute know it alls. They won't learn, they won't listen and nothing anyone says or does will fix that.

Can you tell i've been playing a lot of pub broken parts recently...

Munch

May 2, 2014 @ 10:10am

You shouldn't do anything for them. The people who want to do it right and want to learn will read guides (without being told to do so), and will start in the easier tours and work their way up. Even though Oil Spill is a pain because of horrible players, they'll struggle through it and be the better for it. This is what I did when I wanted to start playing MvM so why can't others do it? And yes, Oil Spill was a nightmare, but it taught me the basics.

The people that show up in the more difficult tours, pick redundant classes, have bad loadouts and bad upgrades, have obviously read nothing about MvM, don't realize it's a different game from PvP, are more than likely stubborn and won't take advice. Just had a 2 tour the other day who was the last to join, went 2nd soldier, told the 42 tour soldier that was already there to switch because he (the 2nd tour) is clearly the better soldier (you see, he plays multiplayer which makes everyone a great soldier!) and then shows up at the front with the bison and crap upgrades.

The people who are serious will not be experts on their early tours, but they'll be more than acceptable, they'll take advice when given (even ask for it), and won't need to read threads like this. If someone is crap, or stupid or stubborn, just kick them. It's not hard to figure out how to play this game.

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