What's so good about the Spy-cicle?

[Regisan]

Every spy I ever see uses it. What's so good about it?

[Smugleaf]

It lets the spy escape from pyros instead of immediately dying if the spy gets discovered. It's downsides also aren't that bad. If you're in a scenario where the ice statues can be considered a downside, then the silent kills are good enough to balance it out. The loss of your knife isn't that bad, since if you didn't have the Spycicle, you would need to wait until you respawn, and you would need to travel back to where you were.

[Regisan]

Originally posted by Smugleaf:

It lets the spy escape from pyros instead of immediately dying if the spy gets discovered. It's downsides also aren't that bad. If you're in a scenario where the ice statues can be considered a downside, then the silent kills are good enough to balance it out. The loss of your knife isn't that bad, since if you didn't have the Spycicle, you would need to wait until you respawn, and you would need to travel back to where you were.

Yea I see your point about escaping pyros. With any other knife you'll be dead in a matter of seconds.

[Sentient_Toaster]

The main question to ask yourself is, basically,

"Am I good enough, relative to my opponents, that I have a reasonable expectation of being able to still make the pick when on fire?"

If you ARE, then the knife melting might be a more painful downside because you might lose that crucial pick. However, this is likely only feasible if your target is not looking at you (since it's fairly hard not to notice a flaming spy if he IS looking at you), or if you can lure him into a situation where you can trickstab him (e.g. a pyro whose bloodlust overrides his caution and follows you up a stairwell or around a corner w/o paying attention to the risk of a trickstab).

If you AREN'T, then you're not giving up a stab with the knife melting. The distinctive sound *might* be a downside, but it depends on your opponents' reaction times and how far apart the links in the chain are (theoretically it could mess up a chainstab compared to the YER's more truly silent kills). The statues do let people know that there's a Spycicle spy around, but since that's not actually that surprising and because it doesn't constrain your likely behavior as much as, say, them knowing what watch you're using, it's not a big deal.

I'll note that an alternative escape plan is to use the Ambassador (a 102-point headshot will give almost anybody reason to reconsider chasing you) but you'll still need to find health before somebody else takes notice, and the Ambassador is a downgrade if you don't have the skill to make those headshots. Using the Spycicle's benefit doesn't take any skill at all.

[logophobia]

It isn't *that* good ultimately, but it has a high annoyance factor, just like the DR.

[Jerkcules]

Originally posted by Chen:

Nothing. It just lets ♥♥♥♥ spies have ANOTHER get out of jail free card.

It was needed, because of the gigantic amount of spam weapons and Spy-checking weapons added to the game. If it weren't for the Spycicle or the Dead Ringer the class would basically be either you being a top tier Spy or you dying all the time with no middle ground.

[Smugleaf]

Originally posted by RaaTheGodEater NGC:

It was needed, because of the gigantic amount of spam weapons and Spy-checking weapons added to the game. If it weren't for the Spycicle or the Dead Ringer the class would basically be either you being a top tier Spy or you dying all the time with no middle ground.

The Spycicle and the Dead Ringer weren't necessary at all. Good spies don't need the Dead Ringer to deal with spam because they would be able to use good movement to avoid spam. The weapons that are being added are not good excuses for the Dead Ringer and the Spycicle. That logic will just lead to power creep. If other weapons are a problem, the weapons should be nerfed instead of adding more bad unlocks to the game.

[Deadweight]

Originally posted by Smugleaf:

The Spycicle and the Dead Ringer weren't necessary at all. Good spies don't need the Dead Ringer to deal with spam because they would be able to use good movement to avoid spam.

Until that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who spychecks everyone comes along. You know the guy. The one who spychecks people who also just left their spawn.

[KingofMemes69]

Originally posted by Smugleaf:

Originally posted by RaaTheGodEater NGC:

It was needed, because of the gigantic amount of spam weapons and Spy-checking weapons added to the game. If it weren't for the Spycicle or the Dead Ringer the class would basically be either you being a top tier Spy or you dying all the time with no middle ground.

The Spycicle and the Dead Ringer weren't necessary at all. Good spies don't need the Dead Ringer to deal with spam because they would be able to use good movement to avoid spam. The weapons that are being added are not good excuses for the Dead Ringer and the Spycicle. That logic will just lead to power creep. If other weapons are a problem, the weapons should be nerfed instead of adding more bad unlocks to the game.

*Spawn campers
*Choke point in Dustbowl.

[Mischief]

The Spy-cicle is a useful tool. In the heat of combat the tiny freezing sound it makes when you back stab someone is hardly noticable. Even in quite situations the sound is negligible. Your prey might have an interesting way of thinking though, and the loud scream might be what it ignores. But, that instance will be rare.

It also allows you to become fireproof for 2 seconds and escape the pyro hunting you down. With the deadringer you can walk by all the spam and make it to the backfield.

It's downsides can also be negligible. An ice statue sticks out a lot more then a random body but that only tells that a spy was around. It may leave a nice little bread crumb trail but that can be used to your advantage by stalking someone stalking you via the trail.

The true downside, the 15 seconds with out the a knife, should be taken into consideration. It might not be all that bad, the 15 seconds of hiding might be all you needed to be forgotten by the enemy. It might be irratating, you were about to backstab a player but now your knife is gone. Your target then goes foward, and with its additional firepower, wins the round for your enemy. You might rarely find your self in such a situation though, giving the Spy-cicle advantages over the stock knife and disadvantages that you do not suffer from.

[Mischief]

Originally posted by Smugleaf:

Good spies don't need the Dead Ringer to deal with spam because they would be able to use good movement to avoid spam.

I beg to differ. All the great spies I'm subscribed to use the Dead Ringer from time to time. They're good spies not just because they can dodge, headshot, and sneek. They're good because they put in the required thinking, and they've figured out there there is no way that I'm getting past this corridor full of bullets and rockets. You can't dance out of all the the things aimed at of you.

Originally posted by Smugleaf:

The weapons that are being added are not good excuses for the Dead Ringer and the Spycicle. That logic will just lead to power creep.

Explain, please.

[Octavia]

Originally posted by Brian:

*Spawn campers
*Choke point in Dustbowl.

Snipers and Scouts also perform badly against spawn-campers, as they require distance and movement respectively to properly engage opponents; not all classes are built to handle every situation, especially in the initial game on a map which is horrible designed. Spies should be avoiding choke-points and taking alternate routes, but this is virtually impossible at every stage of Dustbowl due to how linear it is, so using it is a bad comparison; likewise, using spawn-campers as an excuse is silly, because if a team is being spawn-camped then a Spy won't be doing much, as the enemy will almost solely be watching for him behind their back.

The Dead Ringer was a good concept implemented poorly, and the Spycicle was just a sort of crutch to help the Spy in dealing with his counter, and in general, it promotes bad or risky play without requiring any sort of skill, particularly when you couple it with the Enforcer.

[Randgrizer]

It's a really weird weapon, but I do like it...it's a Silent Killer knife, but doesn't remove disguises, so no one will know some one got stabbed if they were seperate from a group of players, but their frozen corpse is a fairly obvious sign of your presence, because no other weapons do that. The fire-proof aspect is hit or miss, because although you can be hit by fire without burning, the grace period is fairly short, and if a pyro is on your scent you're going to be burned after a few seconds anyway, but without your knife. It's particularly annoying when you get burned while trying to stab or chainstab, because then you're pretty useless; and as a sidenote your disguise will yell like they're on fire when your knife melts, and any attentive player will probably instantly figure you out.

[Smugleaf]

Originally posted by Hanae Kasayesaeka Kawatonii:

Until that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who spychecks everyone comes along. You know the guy. The one who spychecks people who also just left their spawn.

A dedicated spychecker will be a problem, but it is possible to try to avoid him. If he's good at preventing you from doing anything, then you'll just have to switch. The spy is a situational class, so he's no meant to be used during the whole round.

Originally posted by Lucifer:

I beg to differ. All the great spies I'm subscribed to use the Dead Ringer from time to time. They're good spies not just because they can dodge, headshot, and sneek. They're good because they put in the required thinking, and they've figured out there there is no way that I'm getting past this corridor full of bullets and rockets. You can't dance out of all the the things aimed at of you.

I've never claimed that good spies wouldn't use the Dead Ringer. That would be a false and ridiculous statement because a good spy would know which watch to use in certain situations. However, a good spy wouldn't need to use the Dead Ringer to do well. Unless you're playing in a map full of chokepoints or there is a high playercount, it should be possible to do well with the Invis Watch. Aside from certain settings, the Dead Ringer was never necessary at all.

Explain, please.

There isn't much to explain. If you know what power creep is, it would be obvious if you just continuously add weapons to deal with another weapon that can potentially lead to extremely powerful weapons.

[<3]

+ its a golden wrench for the poor :))

[donthurl]

It is the best way to make artistic sculptures.