When are there too many engineers in the game, is it even fun anymore or just a chore?

[Matt Damon In A Grape Suit]

I have nothing really against any class in TF2. Its not the class that makes the team, but the other way around. Being said, lately (and in the far past as well) I've seen 3-4 engineers on opposing team no matter when server I go to.

I mean 1 engineer is ok on KOTH, CP, PL, ect. 2? I suppose I could live with it, just going to need more team cordination (in pubs? yeah right). Once you hit 3-4 engineers with big or minis, thats just ridiculous. These players have openly admited to playing or seeing 3 engineers on their team and joing them because they don't want to lose. Saying they know BLU or RED is scrambled without cohesion and they just want to make it an easy round for themselves while raking in frags. It's like a zombie thing, power in numbers.

Some players( I won't assume F2P right away) don't even go to the extent of not putting anything up but a sentry. Yes, I have been on the winning team before with 3 engineers, but I never felt right about it, so I team switch when I can.

The recent account of this happening was on Turbine map (now I remember why I haven't played that map or mode in months), but it doesn't just happen there. Just became one of the few times where I launched the game for a good game but left just really, well, feeling not satisfied with the game because of this kind of thing.

SO I ask, when are too many engineer too many?

[Federal-Foe]

I have never been bothered with too many engineers. You can always take them out one at a time. More engineers = less other classes, so you'll be able to build uber, or go on a sapping spree, or snipe them from a distance.

I don't see the problem?

[Matt Damon In A Grape Suit]

Originally posted by Federal-Foe @Linux:

I have never been bothered with too many engineers. You can always take them out one at a time. More engineers = less other classes, so you'll be able to build uber, or go on a sapping spree, or snipe them from a distance.

I don't see the problem?

Not unless you have good team work. By the time you have focused taking one out, the second or third is still up and running and while you go to take that one out, the one you just finished is back up and you have to deal with it again. Plus you have the whole opposing team trying to prevent your demolition. Plus, it seems that engineer is one of your favorite classes.

[Federal-Foe]

Originally posted by Matt Damon In A Grape Suit:

Plus, it seems that engineer seems to be one of your favorite classes.

That, sir, is classism.

[Matt Damon In A Grape Suit]

Originally posted by Federal-Foe @Linux:

Originally posted by Matt Damon In A Grape Suit:

Plus, it seems that engineer seems to be one of your favorite classes.

That, sir, is classism.

If I'm correct, then you may be a little biased. I have nothing aginst engineers, just these kind of situations.

[templar]

I love playing as engineer and I have no problem with saying that playing against multiple engineers turtling in the same area is no fun for either team.

[Matt Damon In A Grape Suit]

Originally posted by The Last Templar:

I love playing as engineer and I have no problem with saying that playing against multiple engineers turtling in the same area is no fun for either team.

only upside to this at least is with a cordinated uber, you can elimate a lot of buildings in 8 seconds all at once.

[templar]

Originally posted by Matt Damon In A Grape Suit:

Originally posted by The Last Templar:

I love playing as engineer and I have no problem with saying that playing against multiple engineers turtling in the same area is no fun for either team.

only upside to this at least is with a cordinated uber, you can elimate a lot of buildings in 8 seconds all at once.

It can get extremely frustrating on certain maps where you can only get to last through a narrow chokepoint (I'm looking at you, freight), and the enemy team consists of about 6 engineers all covering the final point, a pyro who knows how to airblast, and a medic who keeps ubering the pyro to block the attacking team's uber. At that point, the other team isn't even trying to win, they're just trying to keep anyone from enjoying the game.

[Revoltus]

team need 3 engeeners at most, more=FAIL
1 engeener build sentry gun, 1 build dispenser and 1 build teleporter. Good team work.
More 3 engeeners=FAIL

[Matt Damon In A Grape Suit]

Originally posted by The Last Templar:

Originally posted by Matt Damon In A Grape Suit:

only upside to this at least is with a cordinated uber, you can elimate a lot of buildings in 8 seconds all at once.

It can get extremely frustrating on certain maps where you can only come out of a narrow chokepoint, and the enemy team consists of about 6 engineers all covering the final point, a pyro who knows how to airblast, and a medic who keeps ubering the pyro to block the attacking team's uber. At that point, the other team isn't even trying to win, they're just trying to keep anyone from enjoying the game.

You get it. some map examples may be
Turbine, HooDoo, Egypt, KOTH maps, 2Fort

[Matt Damon In A Grape Suit]

Originally posted by Revoltus:

team need 3 engeeners at most, more=FAIL
1 engeener build sentry gun, 1 build dispenser and 1 build teleporter. Good team work.
More 3 engeeners=FAIL

Personally, 3 is pushing it, but at least you have an understanding on limits.

[Revoltus]

i try say that 3 engeeners is fine for team.

[The Lance Vance Dance]

You should have seen how many engies there where back at like 2009 or whatever year it was, There was like 5-6 on a team (full teams ofc)

[Tolna]

The biggest issue is the fact most people think the spy is the answer to Engieneer spam. Heck, that's most of the reason you see teams with 3+ Spies and Snipers.

Best thing to do in that situation is to go Demoman, and just keep trying to edge the sentires. Eventually your team is going to either..

A) Distract the engy's long enough for you to clean some of them up.

B) Start realizing Demoman is a better option.

C) Start heavy medic spamming. (Ties in with A)

Either way, you pretty much just do what you can and cross your fingers. Also be sure to ask nicely for some extra demomen or a medic buddy as a Demo yourself (or heavy in some cases).

After playing the Xbox version myself, I got VERY good at killing engies lol. I must have played at least 100 times on 2forts where you could ONLY be the engy. So I guess it's not much of an issue for me anymore lol

[Matt Damon In A Grape Suit]

Originally posted by Poot Name Chere.:

You should have seen how many engies there where back at like 2009 or whatever year it was, There was like 5-6 on a team (full teams ofc)

I've only heard such stories from the engineer update.

[Octavia]

Originally posted by The Last Templar:

It can get extremely frustrating on certain maps where you can only get to last through a narrow chokepoint (I'm looking at you, freight), and the enemy team consists of about 6 engineers all covering the final point, a pyro who knows how to airblast, and a medic who keeps ubering the pyro to block the attacking team's uber. At that point, the other team isn't even trying to win, they're just trying to keep anyone from enjoying the game.

In that case, just have your team go with Demomen, Medics, maybe a Pyro and perhaps a Heavy along with one Spy; if you have just one Medic for that situation you clearly aren't going to get anywhere, but multiple Medics will easily let you punch through their defenses. The issue is mainly coordination and composition; if a Pyro is messing up your Uber, then you remove him from the picture or you make sure you have multiple Ubers available, possibly even using something like the Quick-Fix or Kritzkrieg on one Medic to either counter his Uber or prevent him from getting it.

Dealing with multiple Engineers becomes easier the more coordinated your team is and the better their composition is; multiple Spies just get shut down too easily and a single Uber won't help if you get countered by theirs, so it really just boils down to if your team is properly countering a very vulnerable strategy. In a situation like that, Scouts are pointless unless they run Bonk and coordinate well with the team, so it means if your team has a Scout without Bonk in that situation you're essentially down a player; if your team is working to counter Engineer spam, then it's easy to shut down, but if you're only four people actually working to counter an entire team while the rest are lollygagging as Spies, Scouts and Snipers, then it becomes much more difficult because you simply don't have the amount of players needed to counter such spam on their part.