Homewrecker; a disgrace to balance

[Dunhill]

Yes, counters are a part of the core game design. Normally, pyro counters spy, and spy allegedly counters engineer. Add in the homewrecker, and pyro ♥♥♥♥♥ on spy with every slot, and spy no longer counters engi to any capacity.

The pyrbro/engi combo is a complete shutdown to a spy, and an annoying, difficult-to-push-through choke.

For those of you who play only on paper, TF2 isn't a 1v1 game set on an infinite, empty plane. A sentry can easily kill you if you lose your disguise. The engineer's teammates as well as the engi himself tend to be around the sentry. For you to successfully sap the sentry without a team push, you need at least the engi to be away, and even then it's probably a suicide run. You need to get in without a hitch, and depending on where the engi is, put a few bullets in the sentry.

When you add the homewrecker and the mindset alteration that typically comes with it, you get a sworn defender of the nest. This defender can spycheck incredibly easily and effectively, as is the nature of the class. This renders the "getting in without a hitch" part extremely difficult. If you still somehow pull it off, not only are there 2 people who can take off the sapper, but there are 2 people gunning after you, one of which is your counter.

I don't think spy is particularly great at taking out nests. Having a weapon specifically made for it doesn't mean it's great at it. Still, spy getting in and even temporarily disabling engi's stuff can allow for a team push to go through. That ain't happening when there's a pybro.

And additionally, spy is the weakest class in the game. Does he really need more stuff going against him? I think not.


So let's just remove it. But why not rebalance it? Its main stat is the problem. Changing that is replacing the homewrecker with a new weapon with an old skin.

The neon annihilator has a similar issue, and should also be removed, but that's a topic for another thread.

[Dunhill]

Originally posted by THE DESTOYER OF WORLSD!!!:

I'd love to dedicate all of my weapon slots to makes Spies more miserable, but unfortunately, the Powerjack is better

I love disguising class buffs as unlocks

[Big Sloppie]

Spy issue being useless in every support scenario and not the Homewrecker’s fault.

[Astyl]

Originally posted by Big Sloppie:

Spy issue being useless in every support scenario and not the Homewrecker’s fault.

How is it not the homewrecker's fault in this instance? I will give you 1 billion dollars if you answer me.

[Dunhill]

Originally posted by Big Sloppie:

Spy issue being useless in every support scenario and not the Homewrecker’s fault.

Weaker than average, but not useless. The homewrecker renders him useless in one of the few things he's stronger than average in.

[Jenkem Junkie]

Good thread. Pyro has the worst balancing in the game and it extends well beyond the homewrecker or powerjack.

[dag]

Originally posted by Jenkem Junkie:

Good thread. Pyro has the worst balancing in the game and it extends well beyond the homewrecker or powerjack.

Groundbreaking news

[Jenkem Junkie]

Originally posted by zero:

Originally posted by Jenkem Junkie:

Good thread. Pyro has the worst balancing in the game and it extends well beyond the homewrecker or powerjack.

Groundbreaking news

It's good to remind people, especially with all the people running around trying to paint Sniper as the least balanced class.

[ゴ『M.P. Firebrand』ゴ]

Fair but I line using it to destroy gunslinger engineers. That way it’s more useful and fun. The annihilation of spies is just a bonus that I also find useful but less common unless you are on defense or have a really sap happy good enemy spy

[fireserpent1992]

But then pybro reddit Playstyle would be dead!!

[76561198161596995]

engineer getting special treatment by the devs because they have no clue how to balance their games goes back to before even tf2

[Dunhill]

Originally posted by ゴ『M.P. Firebrand』ゴ:

Fair but I line using it to destroy gunslinger engineers. That way it’s more useful and fun. The annihilation of spies is just a bonus that I also find useful but less common unless you are on defense or have a really sap happy good enemy spy

The vast majority of people don't use it that way.

[WE are in the beam.]

Originally posted by Smoke:

So let's just remove it. But why not rebalance it? Its main stat is the problem. Changing that is replacing the homewrecker with a new weapon with an old skin.

"Damage removes sappers" isn't main/core/original stat of Homewrecker.

"+100% damage vs buildings" and "-25% damage vs players" are original stats of Homewrecker.

Will Homewrecker work without "Damage removes sappers" stat?
Yes, because that stat wasn't original part of the weapon.

[Dunhill]

Originally posted by WE are in the beam.:

Originally posted by Smoke:

So let's just remove it. But why not rebalance it? Its main stat is the problem. Changing that is replacing the homewrecker with a new weapon with an old skin.

"Damage removes sappers" isn't main/core/original stat of Homewrecker.

"+100% damage vs buildings" and "-25% damage vs players" are original stats of Homewrecker.

It's the same way the passive cloak duration boost wasn't originally a stat for the L'etranger, but is now the stat everyone uses it for. They made a new weapon by adding that stat.

Also, that stat on the homewrecker was added only 2 months after the weapon was released. It's been the core stat for 14 years.

[Chops of Woggin]

Originally posted by Smoke:

The pyrbro/engi combo is a complete shutdown to a spy, and an annoying, difficult-to-push-through choke.

Hello. Any kind of combo can shut down a single player. Claiming a weapon that is only useful in a combo is OP is a bit daft.

If it were your spy 1v1 versus pyro with homewrecker, the homewrecker is a downgrade.

For those of you who play only on paper, TF2 isn't a 1v1 game set on an infinite, empty plane.

No, but you should consider the balancing scenario from a 1v1 perspective. Look at the argument below...

A sentry can easily kill you if you lose your disguise. The engineer's teammates as well as the engi himself tend to be around the sentry. For you to successfully sap the sentry without a team push, you need at least the engi to be away, and even then it's probably a suicide run. You need to get in without a hitch, and depending on where the engi is, put a few bullets in the sentry.

Your complaint about the homewrecker is backed up with the scenario of a lone spy trying to take out a full freakin team guarding a sentry nest.

You have a team, perhaps you wait for your heavy to round the corner before you go for the nest, maybe the heavy comes with a medic (cos combos are powerful) and your 1v2 is now a 3v2 in your favour.

Snipped the rest cos it's the same.

You can't balance weapons based on uneven teams.

[WE are in the beam.]

Originally posted by Smoke:

Originally posted by WE are in the beam.:

"Damage removes sappers" isn't main/core/original stat of Homewrecker.

"+100% damage vs buildings" and "-25% damage vs players" are original stats of Homewrecker.

It's the same way the passive cloak duration boost wasn't originally a stat for the L'etranger, but is now the stat everyone uses it for. They made a new weapon by adding that stat.

L'etranger from the start was designed with decreasing cloak managment.

Homewrecker from the start was designed with destroying enemy buildings built by enemy engineers.