Fixing The Brass Beast

[Magicmaan775]

This weapon is terrible, so let's figure out a way to fix it!

My suggestion is that it's bullets pierce similar to that of the machina, but the damage decreases expotentially through each player (ie, 8 damage to player #1, 4 damage to player #2, 2 damage to player #3, etc.)

If you have a different idea please tell me.

[Casca wants to die]

Originally posted by Magicmaan775:

because you become an idiot simply by coming to TF2's discussion section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w3TnkB_6ig&index=45&list=PLRovoBar4JJvGibwtgmD6Ut5Cp1caRoRu

[Ace42]

Brass Beast is pointless to fix while the rest of Heavy's kit is so totally FUBAR. At the very least he needs his nerf reverted.

[Magicmaan775]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Brass Beast is pointless to fix while the rest of Heavy's kit is so totally FUBAR. At the very least he needs his nerf reverted.

Apart from reverting the nerf, what else do you think should be done?

[Magicmaan775]

Originally posted by Rainbow Dash:

Originally posted by Magicmaan775:

because you become an idiot simply by coming to TF2's discussion section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w3TnkB_6ig&index=45&list=PLRovoBar4JJvGibwtgmD6Ut5Cp1caRoRu

I removed that part, I don't want to make people angry.

[Deneris]

As it's dubbed the "defensive minigun", perhaps give the user a bonus to defense? Visually, they could add a gun-shield to the weapon...

[Magicmaan775]

Originally posted by Deneris:

As it's dubbed the "defensive minigun", perhaps give the user a bonus to defense? Visually, they could add a gun-shield to the weapon...

That be pretty cool.

[Magicmaan775]

Originally posted by Rada:

Originally posted by Magicmaan775:

This weapon is terrible, so let's figure out a way to fix it!

My suggestion is that it's bullets pierce similar to that of the machina, but the damage decreases expotentially through each player (ie, 8 damage to player #1, 4 damage to player #2, 2 damage to player #3, etc.)

If you have a different idea please tell me.

dont fix it if it isnt broken

It is broken.

[Gumi]

Nothing's wrong with the Brass Beast. You're meant to use it while defending a single spot at a time. Plus it is THE minigun for MVM. If any minigun is underpowered it's Natascha. Giant damage penalty and slower spinup time? Geezus. But seconded that the Heavy nerf needs to go.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by Magicmaan775:

Apart from reverting the nerf, what else do you think should be done?

Some sort of rework would be in order. Heavy needs higher skill indexing, and better risk vs reward options.

Narrower spread on the minigun would be a good start - as it would reward aim to a greater degree, as well as extending his effective range and damage in a meaingful sense. Bullet penetration on some guns (Brass Beast would be an obvious candidate) would help a lot too.

Some options for pro-active tanking would be nice - I'd like to see some martial-arts hand-wraps that allow him to use alt-fire to "block" incoming projectiles kinda like the Pyro's airblast, but without the reflect. Maybe some sort of "bullet deflection" effect for a brief moment after releasing the alt-fire to allow him to swap sniper bullets out of the air.

That allows the Heavy to do his job - tanking - but also requires skill indexing.

Some advanced movement would be good too - I like the idea of a headband primary slot item that lets him do a fireball type move which would be a bit like a Loose Cannon ball, but travel straight, work off a Chargin' Targe style charge meter instead of ammo, and doesn't detonate, just deals impact damage and knockback. Would also let him "rocket jump" with it.

Maybe give him a karate Gi outfit that lowers his max health by 100, but improves his mobility, as as secondary.

That would provide some interesting options and skill indexing.

As for the miniguns - they shouldn't have to be fired to deal full damage, that just penalises ammo management. Change it to "can't spin-up whilst airborne, getting knocked airborne interupts spin-up; spinning up ramps up both damage and accuracy" would pretty much fix that problem.

Change Natasha from "slowdown" to "knockback", and lower the damage penalty significantly.

Give the Tommislav the same damage / firerate as the stock minigun, but give it an "Overheat" bar that jams the gun when full, and forces the player to wait for it to cooldown to skill-index the RoF. Maybe lower its max ammo count a little and keep it at the current minigun spread.

Make Family Business fire single hitscan slugs with random deviation (kinda like a revolver shot) to open up range and differentiate it from stock shotgun. Maybe give it penetration.

Rework Eviction Notice so that it has the the Warrior's Spirit +damage, and on wearer +weapon switch speed; but slower ROF.

Give Dalokah's Bar "sugar rush" perk that increases speed whilst spun-up by, say, 15%.

Rework the Warrior's Spirit to behave more like the Boston Basher (On miss self-hit, applies bleed).

Change Buffalo Steak so that it doesn't lock you to melee, but only grants you minicrits when you're meleeing - so you can get some speedboost whilst spun-up with brass beast, etc at the cost of taking 33% more damage.

With tighter spread and the nerf reworked, Brass Beast is broadly speaking fine because of the higher DPS. Having Buffalo Steak / Dalokahs Bar effect to help mitigate its downside is also beneficial to it.

Huo-long heater's fine for what it does - although I'd think maybe improving the ring-of-fire so that it wasn't as trivial for half-intelligent spies to hop over might be in order.

Fists of Steel could do with their stats being tweaked - their nerf way-back-when might've been a tad heavy handed and could do with a slight dial back. That or just ditch the weapon-switch-speed penalty, considering switching between them for defence and primary to attack is pretty much a key point of using them.

[ADD THIS PLS]

It isn't very OP or UP it is just a very bland sidegrade.

[ofcityadri]

I WANT TACTICAL SHIELD IN ONE HAND AND A SHOTGUN IN THE OTHER HAND! (HEAVY IS BIG SO HE CAN HANDLE SINGLEHANDEDLY A SHOTGUN) LISTEN TO ME BECAUSE I'M A CAPTAIN.

THX

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=347794342
just maybe remove/lessen the movement while firing seriously it makes no sense might as well give him the speed reduction while he has it out not only while he is firing
or instead maybe less knockback since the thing weights alot and reduces his speed so by that sense he should remain more planted on the ground

[Magicmaan775]

Originally posted by totally not an alt:

It isn't very OP or UP it is just a very bland sidegrade.

I guess that's sorta my point of view.

[Mischev44]

Originally posted by Deneris:

As it's dubbed the "defensive minigun", perhaps give the user a bonus to defense? Visually, they could add a gun-shield to the weapon...

How about health regen while standing completely still?

[jua]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Originally posted by Magicmaan775:

Apart from reverting the nerf, what else do you think should be done?

Some sort of rework would be in order. Heavy needs higher skill indexing, and better risk vs reward options.

Narrower spread on the minigun would be a good start - as it would reward aim to a greater degree, as well as extending his effective range and damage in a meaingful sense. Bullet penetration on some guns (Brass Beast would be an obvious candidate) would help a lot too.

Some options for pro-active tanking would be nice - I'd like to see some martial-arts hand-wraps that allow him to use alt-fire to "block" incoming projectiles kinda like the Pyro's airblast, but without the reflect. Maybe some sort of "bullet deflection" effect for a brief moment after releasing the alt-fire to allow him to swap sniper bullets out of the air.

That allows the Heavy to do his job - tanking - but also requires skill indexing.

Some advanced movement would be good too - I like the idea of a headband primary slot item that lets him do a fireball type move which would be a bit like a Loose Cannon ball, but travel straight, work off a Chargin' Targe style charge meter instead of ammo, and doesn't detonate, just deals impact damage and knockback. Would also let him "rocket jump" with it.

Maybe give him a karate Gi outfit that lowers his max health by 100, but improves his mobility, as as secondary.

That would provide some interesting options and skill indexing.

As for the miniguns - they shouldn't have to be fired to deal full damage, that just penalises ammo management. Change it to "can't spin-up whilst airborne, getting knocked airborne interupts spin-up; spinning up ramps up both damage and accuracy" would pretty much fix that problem.

Change Natasha from "slowdown" to "knockback", and lower the damage penalty significantly.

Give the Tommislav the same damage / firerate as the stock minigun, but give it an "Overheat" bar that jams the gun when full, and forces the player to wait for it to cooldown to skill-index the RoF. Maybe lower its max ammo count a little and keep it at the current minigun spread.

Make Family Business fire single hitscan slugs with random deviation (kinda like a revolver shot) to open up range and differentiate it from stock shotgun. Maybe give it penetration.

Rework Eviction Notice so that it has the the Warrior's Spirit +damage, and on wearer +weapon switch speed; but slower ROF.

Give Dalokah's Bar "sugar rush" perk that increases speed whilst spun-up by, say, 15%.

Rework the Warrior's Spirit to behave more like the Boston Basher (On miss self-hit, applies bleed).

Change Buffalo Steak so that it doesn't lock you to melee, but only grants you minicrits when you're meleeing - so you can get some speedboost whilst spun-up with brass beast, etc at the cost of taking 33% more damage.

With tighter spread and the nerf reworked, Brass Beast is broadly speaking fine because of the higher DPS. Having Buffalo Steak / Dalokahs Bar effect to help mitigate its downside is also beneficial to it.

Huo-long heater's fine for what it does - although I'd think maybe improving the ring-of-fire so that it wasn't as trivial for half-intelligent spies to hop over might be in order.

Fists of Steel could do with their stats being tweaked - their nerf way-back-when might've been a tad heavy handed and could do with a slight dial back. That or just ditch the weapon-switch-speed penalty, considering switching between them for defence and primary to attack is pretty much a key point of using them.

Bloody hell, that's a major overhaul, the martial artist Heavy subclass.

I like it.