Are Quickscopes Overpowered?

[Rayzuke]

Yes...yes they are.

[trash]

Joe Papa eredeti hozzászólása:

Being able to instantly kill 5 of the 9 classes in the game at any range on top of one shotting all classes is op. Reduce the fully charged quickscope and bodyshot damage to 120

the problem with this is that it stops countersnipers from being able to quickly remove a passive sniper in a power position, potentially making sniper prevalence even worse

[Galaxander]

trash eredeti hozzászólása:

Joe Papa eredeti hozzászólása:

Being able to instantly kill 5 of the 9 classes in the game at any range on top of one shotting all classes is op. Reduce the fully charged quickscope and bodyshot damage to 120

the problem with this is that it stops countersnipers from being able to quickly remove a passive sniper in a power position, potentially making sniper prevalence even worse

Not that I think 120 quickscopes is a good idea in the main, but the solution to this particular obstacle is to make sniper rifles deal their extra charge damage based on the target's charge if it's higher than the user's.

[trash]

Galaxander eredeti hozzászólása:

Not that I think 120 quickscopes is a good idea in the main, but the solution to this particular obstacle is to make sniper rifles deal their extra charge damage based on the target's charge if it's higher than the user's.

sounds too gimmicky

[Emurinus]

Quickscoping is fine. Hardscoping is a problem.

[Hell-met]

trash eredeti hozzászólása:

dev commentary said they didn't want people just running around instapopping people and so added charge so you'd have to commit for consistent kills
wonder how spooked they be if you pulled any random publord sniper from today and sent them back to those 2006 playtests

it's cool having a dude standing around unscoped on the other end of the map be more of a threat and limit on your options than a revved heavy 10 feet away

they added the 200 ms delay like 3 weeks after launch so i have a feeling they knew how retarded sniper could be once you stray away from fov 75 default net settings

and still did nothing at all for the 13 years beyond

[Vror]

Ralof eredeti hozzászólása:

well unless youre playing huge maps all the time, on small ones you're just asking to be killed.

That's basically sniper in it's entirety, playing sniper in a small map is a bad idea overall, except when using the huntsman

Ralof eredeti hozzászólása:

not only it takes few seconds to charge a shot but also you have to be precise enough to land a headshot which i consider bit more difficult than just doing a quick headshot for 150 dmg.

So you're telling me it's harder to focus the shot, taking your time and firing, than scoping and instantly firing? Your logic is kinda flawed here

Ralof eredeti hozzászólása:

youre moving at a snail's pace meaning you have little room to dodge if there's a soldier or demo right behind your ass waiting to just explode you into little pieces but also you could just easily be headshotted by a enemy sniper that sits just right outside your fov.

IF they could get near you in the first place
Because you know, the best place to be as sniper is in the middle of your team, winning their protection so you don't have to worry about your only downside wich is being weak in close range scenarios

Oh, and either quickscoping or not, if a soldier get to you you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ anyways, so that's a massive lie lol

[Vror]

I said it like a thousand times already, but the best way to nerf sniper is limiting his charge up to 75 damage instead of 150

This would solve a lot of things while creating 0 problems in the long run

[trash]

Vror eredeti hozzászólása:

So you're telling me it's harder to focus the shot, taking your time and firing, than scoping and instantly firing?

a lot of the time yeah
even ignoring that it's usually more economical

[Hell-met]

Vror eredeti hozzászólása:

I said it like a thousand times already, but the best way to nerf sniper is limiting his charge up to 75 damage instead of 150

This would solve a lot of things while creating 0 problems in the long run

of course it creates problems lol

would greatly benefit soldier/demo/heavy pubstompers, and penalize scout/pyro/spy indirectly because there would be little reason to play them. would also stop sniper from countering himself decently, especially with overheal.

[NW/RL]

No, no they aren't. If anything they're the only balanced thing sniper has

[azumazku]

kinda, but he is the sniper.

killing babies in one shot is his thing.

[Vror]

Hell-met eredeti hozzászólása:

would greatly benefit soldier/demo/heavy pubstompers,

You're saying it like the only way to stop a soldier/demo/heavy pubstomp is playing sniper, wich we both know it's not true at all

Spy (Against heavies)
Scout (Against soldier / demos)
Pyro (Against soldier / demos)

Hell even this nerfed version of the sniper can still take out a soldier and a demo with a headshot if they're not overhealed

Hell-met eredeti hozzászólása:

and penalize scout/pyro/spy indirectly because there would be little reason to play them

2 things

1) So you're saying soldier, demo and heavy counter those 3 classes? what

2) The opposite, this would ENCOURAGE people playing scout and spy to especifically counter the "PUBSTOMPERS"

Hell-met eredeti hozzászólása:

would also stop sniper from countering himself decently, especially with overheal.

75 x 3 = 225
Sniper can still one shot the other sniper, even with overheal

[Rayzuke]

the_fantastic_nami_slut eredeti hozzászólása:

Rayzuke eredeti hozzászólása:

to add my input of a balance idea. I think sniper Rifles should have their crit damage multiplier reduced from 300% DMG ---> 200%. In addition so snipers doesn't lose his 450 headshot damage we should buff the charge of the scope to increase the damagemultiplier of crits back to 300% at full charge.

This would look a little something like this:
0%: Bodyshot 50 DMG / Headshot 100 DMG (Crit Multiplier 200%)
20%: Bodyshot 70 DMG / Headshot 154 DMG (Crit Multiplier 220%)
50%: Bodyshot 100 DMG / Headshot 250 DMG (Crit Multiplier 250%)
100%: Bodyshot 150 DMG / Headshot 450 DMG (Crit Multiplier 300%)


That way :
-Sniper would stop deleting classes every 1.7 seconds allowing the team to push foward

-spy would gain greater relevance as sniper can no longer reliably get every important pick

-keeping your healh above 100 would be reeinforced

-he doesn't win every 1vs1 with a quickscope so when a scout or soldier can reach him they dont just die
-which as a follow up would bring greater relevance to his SMG secondarys and melee Options which only are viable for snipers that dont hit their headshot

-Sydney Sleeper would be more balanced and gain more justification

-You can rebalance all of Snipers Primarys around this concept. For instance the Hitmans heatmaker when in FOCUS mode starts the charge meter at 20% which gives sniper a briefe time to delete a lot of the enemy team WHILE also the tracer rounds inform the enemy team that a sniper is currently SPEED killing.



but thats just me

I kinda like these suggestions, but the reasons behind them are purely based on never missing sniper a.k.a cheaters.

Sniper has the potential to win a scout in 1vs1 or solly and demo but it's not a thing that ought's to happen always, it's just a chance just as tossing DH on a scout.

Circumstances defines the result which only a skill can likely take the lead.

Frankly this is to true to some degree but the problem is that cheaters to a extend show the full potential of a class in certain areas. The area in question is a aim of steel. And while no player will ever reach that perfection between pingrates and interpollations there are a large handful of them that do get unreasonably close.

It is also true that most of the time a sniper will mess up a close up quickscope on a scout or soldier... the problem however is the timeline where he doesn't mess up. Snipers are far in the back and in all Maps with big open sidelines they can slaughter the enemy team without much worry aside from the enemy sniper (which is bad gamedesign in a class based game).

So when a Scout, Soldier or Spy are able to confront the sniper chances are that they on average already died 3 times to him with no way to fight back. They had to fight/sneak their way past the entire enemy team which most likely left them wounded and because skilled snipers play close to ammo and health packs they wont even be able to fully heal themselves for the confrontation. So when they reach the sniper after 2 minutes of failed attempt all it takes is ONE quickscope and all of their efforts go to waste and there is nothing they can do about it because snipers hitscan will kill first when it hits.

And this is the main point I want to adress with quickscopes. Even when someone did everything right and managed to get close to a sniper, they can just be unfairly outgunned despite putting so much effort and time into it. Keeping your health above 100 in this scenario is atleast reasonable to ask of most classes as they will have a fighting chance even when the sniper hits the quickscope.

[76561198161596995]

damage isnt sniper's problem, its frequency of shots and forgiving use

long range damage may not fit in a game like tf2 in every aspect but it adds important pressure to powerclasses and gives more significance to medic's dynamic within the game

sniper gets away with not having to think about the significance of each bullet he fires because he has so many, and can shoot them faster than what is necessary for what is supposed to be a methodical assassin

[shu7en]

Rayzuke eredeti hozzászólása:

the_fantastic_nami_slut eredeti hozzászólása:

I kinda like these suggestions, but the reasons behind them are purely based on never missing sniper a.k.a cheaters.

Sniper has the potential to win a scout in 1vs1 or solly and demo but it's not a thing that ought's to happen always, it's just a chance just as tossing DH on a scout.

Circumstances defines the result which only a skill can likely take the lead.

Frankly this is to true to some degree but the problem is that cheaters to a extend show the full potential of a class in certain areas. The area in question is a aim of steel. And while no player will ever reach that perfection between pingrates and interpollations there are a large handful of them that do get unreasonably close.

It is also true that most of the time a sniper will mess up a close up quickscope on a scout or soldier... the problem however is the timeline where he doesn't mess up. Snipers are far in the back and in all Maps with big open sidelines they can slaughter the enemy team without much worry aside from the enemy sniper (which is bad gamedesign in a class based game).

So when a Scout, Soldier or Spy are able to confront the sniper chances are that they on average already died 3 times to him with no way to fight back. They had to fight/sneak their way past the entire enemy team which most likely left them wounded and because skilled snipers play close to ammo and health packs they wont even be able to fully heal themselves for the confrontation. So when they reach the sniper after 2 minutes of failed attempt all it takes is ONE quickscope and all of their efforts go to waste and there is nothing they can do about it because snipers hitscan will kill first when it hits.

And this is the main point I want to adress with quickscopes. Even when someone did everything right and managed to get close to a sniper, they can just be unfairly outgunned despite putting so much effort and time into it. Keeping your health above 100 in this scenario is atleast reasonable to ask of most classes as they will have a fighting chance even when the sniper hits the quickscope.

Speculated 'full potential' but I'd rather say that cheaters can show over-exaggerated potential ( a wank ) if I may say so, because I have yet to meet a player that can match the cheaters capability without cheats. And streams I've watched, players I've observed and played myself, none of us comes to close to such power.

You first acknowledged that average sniper won't be a threat that we are discussing but later state that it takes just one shot without acknowledging that it needs to hit.

As a spy I rarely lose the HP when I get where I need to in order to deal with these snipers. 2 Shots or 1 stab is enough most of the time unless sniper has a good spot and non-braindead team a.k.a engineer and even a pybro, then all you can do is to wait for a push and if your team can't do that the problem is something else than the sniper.

A said solly can actually one shot a sniper just as well, speculating that he too is just as good as the sniper and just have a crit from a far away still does 270 dmg.