The Loch n Load nerf.

[GoldTheAngel]

Once upon the time, the loch n load was the feared weapon of the demoman, requiring skill to hit enemies and not the regular M1,M2 stickybomb launcher demoman who is lazy beyond all reason. Then Valve nerfed it to only deal 124 max damage and for just a few minutes of playing, I havn't gotten out a lot of situations that I would have gotten out of if the Loch n Load dealt at least 125 damage.

Who agrees that Valve should buff it back up again?
Who disagrees?

It's your call...

[Spyrosva]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Ham the Wizard:

Escrito originalmente por Mega Smissmagikarp:

I main Demoknight and use Loch N' Load only as covering fire to get away from a bad situation or to get some sniper or sentry out of range. This nerf doesn't really seem as bad as people make it up to be.

a scout is coming towards you, you are at low health
eh its fine you think to yourself as you pull out your loch and load
you hit him, but wait, it only does 124 damage max, ♥♥♥♥!
BANG
you died

Uhn let me tell a more realistic tf2 version of the story.Scout takes damage from multiple sources quickly so he has 100 or 115.And most of the scouts use the sandman.So there you have it.You taunting above the scouts gibbed body, while you kill nearly everyone with an op weapon.

[Spyrosva]

Escrito originalmente por EnderSassTomicCherryStorm:

I main demo. Or, I used to. If I can't use the one weapon that actually helped me play good, I may have to rethink that.

Oh come on.Just keep playing demo and you will get better.You dont need to use overpowered weapons to play classes.

[Spyrosva]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Ham the Wizard:

Escrito originalmente por Sir Zorba:

That's a good thing. Demo shouldn't be able to one shot his hard counter like that.

but is it good that this "balance" costs the viability of the loch and load?
the appeal of the weapon is, sorry, WAS the ability to one shot some classes, now its the least viable demo primary

If you have enough skill to defend yor self you dont need to oneshot classes with not effort.It seems like you dont have that skill.So uninstall tf2 or stop whining because valave ixed your op weapon.

[Spyrosva]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Ham the Wizard:

Escrito originalmente por Sir Zorba:

It's still better at taking out sentries than stock, it can now kill heavies without needing to reload, and it doesn't do extra damage to you at close range anymore. That's a fair trade off for removing the broken aspect of the weapon.

first of all, name me 1 situation, excluding a 1v1 match, where you, as a lone demoman, will ever need to kill a heavy with no team mates.

lets look at the loch and load now:
Changes to base grenade damage variance now ensure the Loch-n-Load does not exceed 124 damage on a single hit
Removed +25% self-damage penalty
Added -25% radius penalty
Changed clipsize penality to -25% (3 grenades per clip) from -50% (2 grenades per clip)
Loch-n-load grenades no longer visually tumble when fired

the loch and load was essentially the AWP from the couter strike series, you can one shot people, but if you miss, your ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and you have to reload.

yes you are right in some sense, it is broken/unfun to play against, but what you have failed to factor in is player mentality. i rarely saw demos rocking the loch and load, because its a high risk - high reward weapon, and they generally felt safer with the stock or loose cannon as they could screw up, yet not be screwed. if you saw a demo with the L n L, they would generally have been a better player. i feel valve has watered down this weapon to levels of mediocrity to make it harder to kill people with and make it more accesable to newbies, overall making it imo the least viable primary option for demoman, not only can you not wall bounce bombs, but you cant one hit classes.

High risk high reward weapon.You probably mean no effort and risk to huge reward .And that is unfair.

[Spyrosva]

Escrito originalmente por 3vilt0ast:

Escrito originalmente por Mariachi Santatron Prime:

Oh boo hoo.
I'm sorry for your loss.

How about you shut up scrubbag.

Oh god another whiny tiny baby getting mad because he can;t one shot classes.

[GoldTheAngel]

Hello I am OP. And I'm asking how the ♥♥♥♥ is this still getting comments?

[Mischev44]

Escrito originalmente por GoldTheAngel:

Hello I am OP. And I'm asking how the ♥♥♥♥ is this still getting comments?

Necro's

Plus I say no. Leave the loch where it is, dont buff it

[Gurbangly (R.I.P Rick May)]

Necro'd because I'm currently missing the old LnL

I know it used to be somewhat OP, but ALL you had to do to make it balanced was get rid of the projectile speed increase. It would require you to be just as skilled as the stock GL with aiming. The idea of the LnL was to make those only 2 shots it had DEADLY with direct hits, sacrificing HALF of its clip size and making it unable to roll pills on the ground.

Seriously, Valve, please just make it like it was before Smissmas, but get rid of the projectile speed.

+25% damage increase

-Pills dissolve when hitting the ground
-50% clip size

easy

[Balding swiss subhuman]

Because it takes NO SKILL at all to hit anything else with any other launcher.

[drooskie]

Escrito originalmente por Oz Not so Generic Demoman:

Because it takes NO SKILL at all to hit anything else with any other launcher.

Did you just say LnL takes more skill than any other launcher? If so, you are so utterly wrong.

[Vlad the Impala]

Escrito originalmente por Oz Not so Generic Demoman:

Because it takes NO SKILL at all to hit anything else with any other launcher.

I seriously hope you were being sarcastic.

[Kohchu]

How many shots did it take to kill a Scout before? 2?
How many shots to take out a Sentry? 3-4?

How many shots now, Scout? 2?
How many shots on a Sentry now. 2.

Nerf lol

[Dayal]

Escrito originalmente por Shadowlord90 (Nikolai):

How many shots did it take to kill a Scout before? 2?
How many shots to take out a Sentry? 3-4?

It was always capable of destroying sentries in 2 shots...

[Kohchu]

Escrito originalmente por Dayal:

Escrito originalmente por Shadowlord90 (Nikolai):

How many shots did it take to kill a Scout before? 2?
How many shots to take out a Sentry? 3-4?

It was always capable of destroying sentries in 2 shots...

Assuming the Engineer isn't wrenching it. The Loch n Load now; even if the Engineer is fixing it, 2 pills do so much damage, it's gone.

People need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that changes don't automatically ruin the game.

[Dayal]

Escrito originalmente por Shadowlord90 (Nikolai):

Assuming the Engineer isn't wrenching it. The Loch n Load now; even if the Engineer is fixing it, 2 pills do so much damage, it's gone.

People need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that changes don't automatically ruin the game.

But it already had that 20% extra damage, it applied to players as well as buildings... This means that whatever it did to buildings pre-nerf is exactly what it does now to buildings.