Why Engineer is a bad class.

[ZombiBatz]

It's too easy. Seriously. Engineers rely mostly if not completely on their buildings to be any use to a team, problem is that being Engineer requires no skill, and doen't make you any better at the game and possibly worse, as you start to develope the mentality that the Sentry Gun is a game winner. When that sentry goes down, and if the enemy teams competent it will, you are as good as dead. I see a lot of new players choosing Engie, and they get rewarded for doing absolutly nothing, or they become Spy bait. I can't count how many times I've seen RED have 3+ engineers, and than they contribute very little passed the first sentry, which they relied on, or, It's just a flustercluck of Sentries at the last point. Another thing is that I've seen some Engineer mains trash talk, You are using an AI with a very powerfull way of killing to do your job, you are not in the position to say you are good at the game. Also is it just me, or does Engie have some of the most contraversial weapons in TF2? The Pomson, the Frontier Justice, the Wrangler, and the Gunslinger, all weapons that just make this class even easier to play. The way I see it, Engineers are either A: Players who are admiting to being bad at the game, or B: Trying really hard to win.

CLARIFICATION. Engineer is NOT Op, just an annoying class to deal with a surplus of, and is all around a terrible concept.

Also since this has gotten WAY out of hand, I would like to remind you of the "Report Post" option. Feel free to use it if a post is unrelated and rude, Valve WILL notice and react accordingly, I have done so in the past myself.

[Deejudanne]

somoene sucks or either just got owned by engies

[ZombiBatz]

Originally posted by ❤ DeeJuDanne ❤:

somoene sucks or either just got owned by engies :squirtheh:

All Im saying is that engineer is too rewarding for doing next to nothing.

[Zoidberg]

Engineers does alot in games, if you are attacker and does not have 1 engineer you will probaly lose. He can build teleports to make it easyier to cap, Dispensers for healing, and sentrygun to defend against the defenders.

[Jagel]

Why should engineers "do" something else than protecting their buildings , I mean, it's the game, they have a role in the team, they complete it, they are doing good. That's it. You do not need to kill everyone with skill to win at the game. You just have to do your job. Like a normal TEAM. That's it. If you want a game were you just need to kill everyone and be super skilled, go play counter strike.

[0nion]

hey, no need to complain cause probably the engie isnt your playing style, like the heavy isnt mine. for others? they like it, i can do prettey decent without a sentry. the stock items prove good offence. ill send u a friend reuest and show engies can be a game changer

[ZombiBatz]

Originally posted by Jagel:

Why should engineers "do" something else than protecting their buildings , I mean, it's the game, they have a role in the team, they complete it, they are doing good. That's it. You do not need to kill everyone with skill to win at the game. You just have to do your job. Like a normal TEAM. That's it. If you want a game were you just need to kill everyone and be super skilled, go play counter strike.

Your missing my point, im saying that its to rewarding for doing absolutly nothing, their role in the game doesn't require any skill on players behalf, which is something every other class needs in some way shape or form.

[=CrimsoN=]

I main engineer with over 400 hours on engineer alone, and I can say for sure that it is not rewarding for doing next to nothing. Most of the time I actually hate playing engi, because when I frequent pubs, I seem to be the only engineer who knows what the ♥♥♥♥ he is supposed to do.

You might think that engineer requires 0 skill, but just like what you said, you can't count how many times you have seen those r*tard engis put 3 sentries close together or remain in one area (i.e. building on the last point at the very start). Clearly, those engineers are r*tarded. Being engineer requires you to know the map, to know the best sentry placement (sentry heat mapping) and to know when to move your gear up when your team is pushing offense. It requires the most amount of strategy and tactics, otherwise you will become spy bait (and any other classes bait) as you pointed out.

I didn't start as engineer when I first played the game (I started as heavy), but it's completely untrue that engineer teaches you bad habits. I've seen plenty of new engineers try engi and find it to be so difficult to what they are used to playing (running and gunning) that they quit.

Now, all I'm saying is that you think engineer requires 0 skill, but it actually requires an entirely different skill set. It's not about aiming or dodging or strafing. It's about strategy and tactics and probably requires the most strategy out of all the classes.

[ZombiBatz]

Originally posted by Lottjarn:

Engineers does alot in games, if you are attacker and does not have 1 engineer you will probaly lose. He can build teleports to make it easyier to cap, Dispensers for healing, and sentrygun to defend against the defenders.

But what does the Engie do himself? His whole job is to just put down buildings, and then drink all day on his rancho relaxo.

[That Person]

Originally posted by FireTrickster:

It's too easy. Seriously. Engineers rely mostly if not completely on their buildings to be any use to a team, problem is that being Engineer requires no skill, and doen't make you any better at the game and possibly worse, as you start to develope the mentality that the Sentry Gun is a game winner. When that sentry goes down, and if the enemy teams competent it will, you are as good as dead. I see a lot of new players choosing Engie, and they get rewarded for doing absolutly nothing, or they become Spy bait. I can't count how many times I've seen RED have 3+ engineers, and than they contribute very little passed the first sentry, which they relied on, or, It's just a flustercluck of Sentries at the last point. Another thing is that I've seen some Engineer mains trash talk, You are using an AI with a very powerfull way of killing to do your job, you are not in the position to say you are good at the game. Also is it just me, or does Engie have some of the most contraversial weapons in TF2? The Pomson, the Frontier Justice, the Wrangler, and the Gunslinger, all weapons that just make this class even easier to play. The way I see it, Engineers are either A: Players who are admiting to being bad at the game, or B: Trying really hard to win.

have u never tried just running in with a gunslinger and a widow maker? for the offensive

[ZombiBatz]

Originally posted by ✹Machiko✹:

Now, all I'm saying is that you think engineer requires 0 skill, but it actually requires an entirely different skill set. It's not about aiming or dodging or strafing. It's about strategy and tactics and probably requires the most strategy out of all the classes.

Fair enough, Engineer's character was tailored to favor brains over brawn, but the fact that Strategy, while important, is not something as dificult to master as skill of any of the classes (maybe with the exception Scout and Heavy) It just feels like your given so much power without really trying.

[ZombiBatz]

Originally posted by matman2k12:

have u never tried just running in with a gunslinger and a widow maker? for the offensive

Yes, yes I have, and honestly thats the only way you can ever get me to play engi, and it still feels in your favor, as a lot of people will say: "Target the sentry or the engi, you'll end up dead either way"

[♕ Aze]

you must be a very bad player if this is your view. the fact of the matter is every class is very good, but you can only be as good as you can be at each class. thats why i play heavy, its why someone else will play spy etc. the thing is with tf2 is like any game, the more common sense you have the better you will be, theres no doubt that a very good engineer will change the game a lot. this is because theres more to an engi than just his gun that he "relys on". such as, optimum teleporter placement to attract support from the team to that area, such as supporting the team with a short circuit instead of sitting at your. and well actually using the shotgun to go and kill players as well. that makes you a good engineer.

[76561198135698006]

Originally posted by aze HC:

every class is very good

Even Pyro and the Civilian?

[BabyRabbiNY]

Learn how to play like an actual player, stop ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Just learn to play.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by FireTrickster:

It's too easy. Seriously. Engineers rely mostly if not completely on their buildings to be any use to a team, problem is that being Engineer requires no skill, and doen't make you any better at the game and possibly worse, as you start to develope the mentality that the Sentry Gun is a game winner.

Holy run-on sentence Batman!

So you mean Engie's main purpose is to build buildings, which no other class can do!? You mean he's useless without them? This is obvious and part of how Engie is designed. Sentry gun placement actually IMPROVES your gameplay. Why? Because you can see how the other team is able to trounce the sentry in that spot. This means if you're on the opposite side of the sentry, you know exactly what to do to kill it. Not to mention playing Engie means you can counter him easier because you'll understand how he moves, where he'll build, and what to prioritize to disable/weaken/kill his nest.

When that sentry goes down, and if the enemy teams competent it will, you are as good as dead. I see a lot of new players choosing Engie, and they get rewarded for doing absolutly nothing, or they become Spy bait.

But hang on a sec, Engie is easy I thought? Why are you losing your gun if he's such an easy class to play? I'll tell you why, because there's more to the class then "drop building, hold M1 behind, win". I can assure you that new players will have no idea how to time Rescue Ranger bolts on a soldier that's edging you, nor would they know how to dispose of a spy heckling them, or even repel an uber with their sentry using the Wrangler (And having it survive the uber as well).

I can't count how many times I've seen RED have 3+ engineers, and than they contribute very little passed the first sentry, which they relied on, or, It's just a flustercluck of Sentries at the last point.

And then it takes 1 uber + 1 heavy/demo/soldier to destroy the whole giant nest. I counter 4-5 engies with my Demo's pills alone, or even soldier with both my original AND direct hit. Even with Heavy it's easily possible to edge a sentry around a corner so you're drilling it down, while it's unable to fire back.

Another thing is that I've seen some Engineer mains trash talk, You are using an AI with a very powerfull way of killing to do your job, you are not in the position to say you are good at the game.

Actually, yes they are. If you die over and over to a sentry, you deserve to be laughed at. It's a stationary target that can easily be range griefed, edged, and sapped. Most Engie mains will be using the Wrangler with their level 3, which removes that aimbot. You have to beable to lead the target for it to lock-on correctly over long range. Using the RR? You need to time your shots and not spam at your sentry. There's plenty of ways to keep a sentry alive against a single player. Pull 3-4 people in front of that sentry? That requires skill to know how to repair with what, and when it's time to pull out the Wrangler.

Do you know how many kills my PDA gets from people running into my sentry because of people who have no idea what listening for the beeping of the sentry is? I can't count how many people I've dominated due to them diving it over and over. Just because potatoes dive my sentry, certainly doesn't mean it's "easy" to play engie.

Also is it just me, or does Engie have some of the most contraversial weapons in TF2? The Pomson, the Frontier Justice, the Wrangler, and the Gunslinger, all weapons that just make this class even easier to play.

Trust me, it's just you.

Pomson sounds OP in the tooltip, but how often are you going to be shooting out Medics? Even spies can easily dodge these slow moving projectiles. They may have a large hitbox, but a stock shottie, or even FJ can easily dispatch a spy.

FJ rewards you for keeping your sentry alive long enough for it to rack up kills. Using the Gunslinger with it only works if people have no idea how to counter a mini-sentry. 1 Soldier with a Direct hit can shut down 2 Gunslinger engies with 1 clip, nevermind the other 20 rockets they have in reserve.

Gunslinger means your sacrificing huge area denial for mobility. It's also shutdown WAY easier by Demo, Soldier, and especially a spy with RTR. Your mini-sentry takes 10 seconds to rewind if you don't unsap it, while Demo's pill can 1 shot it along side Direct Hit. 2 Stickies or normal rockets also destroy them easily. You can "spam" all the Minis you want, but when a medic comes along with pretty much any class (Ubered or not) you'll be wishing you had that level 3.

The way I see it, Engineers are either A: Players who are admiting to being bad at the game, or B: Trying really hard to win.

I believe A defines you, and B defines Engies because they're key to defending/supporting any push. Be it on RED pushing them off a point in A/D, off the Cart in Payload, or on either side in 5CP.

I see you also don't know the code of the Engie either, as you have this bizzare fascination with Sentries while ignoring his other tools, which can easily be argued to be equal if not more important.

"Sentries get kills"
"Dispensers save lives"
"Teleporters win games"

I'd really suggest you learn how Engie works before crying he's easy mode.