Define crutch weapon (Let's put an end to this debate)

[=CrimsoN=]

I keep seeing conflicting definitions on what a crutch weapon is.

1. Some people say that it's a weapon that gives new players an edge, but doesn't help them against experienced players.

2. Other people say that it's simply a very powerful weapon that requires little skill to use to be effectively.

3. Stil more people say that it's just another definition for a weapon that is overpowered without actually saying that the weapon is overpowered.

4. And others say that it's a weapon to help players get accustomed to the class before they switch to other weapons.



I'm more with the first definition being weapons that give new players a bit of an edge, but don't really have an effect and are sometimes completely useless against experienced players. The phlog and machina come to mind with this defintion.

I'm looking for opinions here.

[Horcerer]

There's like, what, one crutch weapon?

besides that, Git Gud.

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by Cake David Dire:

There's like, what, one crutch weapon?

besides that, Git Gud.

Then define what your defintion of a crutch weapon is.

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by Blush Factory™:

Weapons that reward you for not really having any skill such as The Black Box in which you play exactly like you normally would but you get Health gain every hit.

Or weapons with ABUSRDLY HUGE hitboxes like Huntsman/Ubersaw

Then you have those weapons everyone overuses like Spy-Cicle/Loch n Load that are in sense OP but no one likes to admit there OP.

So you're sort of in the number 3 area. Where it's a weapon that can be considered much more powerful than other weapons of that specific class.

[Horcerer]

Originally posted by ♥Pink_Fury♥:

Originally posted by Cake David Dire:

There's like, what, one crutch weapon?

besides that, Git Gud.

Then define what your defintion of a crutch weapon is.

Actually, Blush described it pretty well. A weapon that rewards you even though you didn't even do anything special to get that reward. Sure, the Huntsman and Ubersaw ain't OP, but they are a little generous in terms of power.

[fakeloo]

Originally posted by Blush Factory™:

Weapons that reward you for not really having any skill such as The Black Box in which you play exactly like you normally would but you get Health gain every hit.

Or weapons with ABUSRDLY HUGE hitboxes like Pomson/Pomson

Then you have those weapons everyone overuses like Spy-Cicle/Loch n Load that are in sense OP but no one likes to admit there OP.

ftfy

Anyways, you don't really have to pick and choose the definition; both 1 and 2 can be used to describe a "clutch weapon," and I don't think using it to describe either would be wrong. Even the latter two don't really conflict with the others either; You can have a strong, easy to use weapon that gives new players an edge and doesn't take much skill to use, and that same weapon would probably help new players learn the class.

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by Bangiras:

Originally posted by Blush Factory™:

Weapons that reward you for not really having any skill such as The Black Box in which you play exactly like you normally would but you get Health gain every hit.

Or weapons with ABUSRDLY HUGE hitboxes like Pomson/Pomson

Then you have those weapons everyone overuses like Spy-Cicle/Loch n Load that are in sense OP but no one likes to admit there OP.

ftfy

Anyways, you don't really have to pick and choose the definition; both 1 and 2 can be used to describe a "clutch weapon," and I don't think using it to describe either would be wrong. Even the latter two don't really conflict with the others either; You can have a strong, easy to use weapon that gives new players an edge and doesn't take much skill to use, and that same weapon would probably help new players learn the class.

Aye. Can't really disagree there.

[Capitalization is Important.]

Originally posted by Blush Factory™:

Or weapons with ABUSRDLY HUGE hitboxes like Ubersaw

w0t
Übersaw[*] uses the same hitboxes as any other melee weapon, what are you talking about?

[NotReallyRoyal]

Originally posted by Capitalization is Important.:

Originally posted by Blush Factory™:

Or weapons with ABUSRDLY HUGE hitboxes like Ubersaw

w0t
Übersaw[*] uses the same hitboxes as any other melee weapon, what are you talking about?

The Ubersaw has insane reach.

[Butz]

Really? I've always said a crutch weapon is one thats easy to use, but also posseses major drawbacks

[Banshee]

A crutch is a weapon that helps bad players but hinders skilled players.

Liberty Launcher is about the closest thing in TF2 to crutch definition. It's easier for new players to do well with it, but it will only hurt a skilled player since they have no need for faster projectiles.

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by Seymour Butz:

Really? I've always said a crutch weapon is one thats easy to use, but also posseses major drawbacks

That's kind of where I am.

Like the pholg being nice against inexperienced players, but the lack of airblast is horrible against any player who knows how to deal with a pyro.

Machina can't no scope so you're stuck in tunnel vision. Good for inexperienced players, but horrible for sniper mains.

But it's argueable that both weapons are good for inexperienced players too since they also both teach bad habits.

[fakeloo]

Originally posted by TF2 Training/Mr.M1:

Originally posted by Capitalization is Important.:

w0t
Übersaw[*] uses the same hitboxes as any other melee weapon, what are you talking about?

The Ubersaw has insane reach.

Not familiar with the reach/hitboxes and couldn't find anything on the TF2 wiki, any sources to demonstrate this?

[shnowshner]

Originally posted by ♥Pink_Fury♥:

Originally posted by Seymour Butz:

Really? I've always said a crutch weapon is one thats easy to use, but also posseses major drawbacks

That's kind of where I am.

Like the pholg being nice against inexperienced players, but the lack of airblast is horrible against any player who knows how to deal with a pyro.

Machina can't no scope so you're stuck in tunnel vision. Good for inexperienced players, but horrible for sniper mains.

But it's argueable that both weapons are good for inexperienced players too since they also both teach bad habits.

Machina being bad for sniper mains? I assume you've never actually seen a sniper main in action. They're terrifying.

[Smith Amsterdam]

A weapon that produces a lot of points/kills with very little thought/experience.

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by Bangiras:

Originally posted by TF2 Training/Mr.M1:

The Ubersaw has insane reach.

Not familiar with the reach/hitboxes and couldn't find anything on the TF2 wiki, any sources to demonstrate this?

I don't think it has a higher reach, but it does have an insane amount of critical hit chances. Even tested it with a person on a server racking up 12 consecutive critical hits. Not hacks either since it was a valid test.

Sure it was "random", but come on. I'd like to see any other melee deliver 12 consecutive critical hits.