Should TF2ers Work on Reporting Friendlies for Griefing?

["Kris"]

First of all,

we can report people for 'griefing' in-game, and since friendlies fall under that because they intentionally choose to throw and disrupt games by idling, helping the enemy team; take non-friendly servers hostage that weren't created for friendlies and turn them into their own playground that has nothing to do what the game is about, and proceed to forbid PvP elements on inherently non-friendly servers like VALVe ones, be mean & votekick the opposition (actual players), I believe that we should.

People. Should be. Allowed. To shoot in a shooter regardless of circumstances.
Without being insulted and votekicked on inherently non-friendly VALVe servers. It's a PvP game.

TF2 has a lot of things a team-based FPS would have, so let’s play it like that. It’s very hard for the idling and the playing ways to co-exist, one is a hindrance to the other.

Allow me to tell you my reasoning more in-depth.

They are an obstruction to gameplay and get in our way, create imbalances, reduce the playercount and variance of interesting gameplay occurrences, make it boring for everyone who is actually playing, waste player slots (the more friendlies there are the harder it is to votekick them) actual players could and should be taking up instead of them, invoke the others to become a friendly, and they are quite rude to those who try to shoot in a shooter, increase queue times, etc.

Reminder for friendlies that if someone wants to play the game without griefers who disallow PvP elements and desire to have the freedom of shooting whoever they want because it's a game about that, they do not take it seriously.

They just want to enjoy shooting in a shooter.

And there is nothing wrong with taking videogames seriously, it shouldn't be something to be ashamed of. For plenty of people it feels good, and when you do, it can create impressive highlights.

The casual game of basketball is still basketball.
You're still meant to get the ball through the hoop.

If you join a game and then sit there eating lunch, you're not playing a Casual game of basketball -- you're just getting in everyone's way.

Casual TF2 is not "no objectives, just do whatever you want."
Casual TF2 is "TF2 without the restrictions put in place by various leagues in order to make the game more streamlined and palatable for spectators."

It's perfectly fine to use silly strategy and meme loudouts, as long as you play.

Second of all,

according to VALVe themselves, friendlies should be gamebanned:

Why are game bans issued?

Game bans in Team Fortress 2 are issued when a player attempts to circumvent or interfere with game systems to the detriment of others.

Examples include:

• [...]
  
• Intentionally interfering with the normal operation of game servers or other players.
  
• Activity or in-game behavior that is intended primarily to be extremely disruptive to the experience of other players.

https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/37C7-829B-5DE3-CC3B

Should the Team Fortress community work on getting the PUBs back by reporting rude idling griefers for them to be potentially gamebanned so everyone is allowed and not afraid to shoot in a shooter whenever they want to?

[borderline useless]

Team Fortress 2 is more than just a shooter game. Just because you lack an understanding of its culture and community does not give you the right to dictate how others should enjoy the game. That right belongs to the majority of players on the server, not a single individual. If you dissagree with the majority just quit and search for a different server.

[76561198092619670]

Originally posted by borderline useless:

Team Fortress 2 is more than just a shooter game. Just because you lack an understanding of its culture and community does not give you the right to dictate how others should enjoy the game. That right belongs to the majority of players on the server, not a single individual. If you dissagree with the majority just quit and search for a different server.

its not that simple

["Kris"]

Originally posted by borderline useless:

Team Fortress 2 is more than just a shooter game.

It's an online team-based PvP shooter game with objectives, centered around ragebaiting, which was ruined by blameshifting friendlies who think they have a moral highground if they crouchwalk around in a PvP environment.

They turned a fun game into some weird conditional shooter where you have to think before shooting and obey griefers if you don't want to get insulted and votekicked, which, I think, is nonsensical.

TF2 allows you so much freedom of interaction through gameplay moments, friendlies diminish and twist it to suit their narrative in order to justify their griefing behavior.

Originally posted by borderline useless:

Just because you lack an understanding of its culture

The """culture""" is really bad though, and creates constant conflicts.

Their culture being crouchwalking around while their teammate is dying in front of them, votekicking and insulting players for playing where they are supposed to?

I guess I don't get it..

Originally posted by borderline useless:

dictate how others should enjoy the game.

It's what friendlies do, the game in question is about killing people and interacting with it through gameplay moments. There are games like VRChat made for friendlies, but instead of going to their places, they self-insert themselves in TF2 and dictate people not shoot.

There are literally friendly community servers made specifically for friendlies.

Originally posted by borderline useless:

That right belongs to the majority of players on the server, not a single individual. If you dissagree with the majority just quit and search for a different server.

Would you agree if half of the server is cheating then you shouldn't try to kick the cheaters?

And why do friendlies get to have that pretty convenient privilege and actual players don't, while being on non-friendly servers, so Casual/non-friendly community servers?

It's always a server with no friendlies/at least with a 99.99℅ less than a half of the people are friendly at the beginning of the match, which means the rule only ever favors friendlies, and is even more biased than I initially thought.

Also, If you're going friendly at the beginning of the match, and when there's no friendlies/less than a half of the server is a friendly, you're automatically violating said rule.

50/50 rule is inherently self-defeating.
If everyone followed it friendlies wouldn't exist since there always has to be a first friendly.

If the majority of the server isn’t going to votekick for people screaming racial slurs, then “well, they’re not kicking over it” DOESN'T really mean anything, and since that’s the entire basis of the argument, the argument fails.

The reasoning here is argumentum ad populum.
The people approve, so it’s OK.

This is logic that was used to keep segregation around for so long.
It was fallacious then, it’s fallacious now.

Every argument made in favor of friendlies could be made for cheaters and it would make as much sense.

Please reconsider your viewpoint:

• https://steamcommunity.com/groups/UEtFaWtC/discussions/0/4027970145569147310/

[YOURKIPPER]

first off all did not read too long so point is invalid friendlies are fun

[Skolver]

Originally posted by borderline useless:

Team Fortress 2 is more than just a shooter game. Just because you lack an understanding of its culture and community does not give you the right to dictate how others should enjoy the game. That right belongs to the majority of players on the server, not a single individual. If you dissagree with the majority just quit and search for a different server.

This. though it seems common sense is not so common.

[DatHomieShnitzel]

Originally posted by YOURKIPPER:

first off all did not read too long so point is invalid friendlies are fun

This. Literally the difference and all that's needed. Cheaters ruin entire games, make the whole thing unfun for both the team they play on and against, meanwhile friendlies, if you don't like them, you can either ask them to move, go to another game, or kill them if you're that angry, fed up, or psychopathic. You can rules-lawyer all day, but at the end of the day, when a cheater joins, only they and SOMETIMES people who witness their chaos get any enjoyment out of it, meanwhile friendlies will often make other players' days. This isn't a democracy, this is just the facts.

[Maximus10113X]

I thought you were all about “equality and inclusion” but you want to kick friendlies out?

[SharkChew]

Originally posted by YOURKIPPER:

first off all did not read too long so point is invalid friendlies are fun

That is a fair point. So it's against the rules.

[76561199766428223]

i like training sniper aim on hoovies

["Kris"]

Originally posted by Skolver:

Originally posted by borderline useless:

Team Fortress 2 is more than just a shooter game. Just because you lack an understanding of its culture and community does not give you the right to dictate how others should enjoy the game. That right belongs to the majority of players on the server, not a single individual. If you dissagree with the majority just quit and search for a different server.

This. though it seems common sense is not so common.

Common sense, which is surface-level reasoning, is inferior to analysis, logic, research, education and science, so I think it's a good thing.

Originally posted by TheRefinedHellion:

Originally posted by YOURKIPPER:

first off all did not read too long so point is invalid friendlies are fun

This. Literally the difference and all that's needed. Cheaters ruin entire games, make the whole thing unfun for both the team they play on and against, meanwhile friendlies, if you don't like them, you can either ask them to move, go to another game, or kill them if you're that angry, fed up, or psychopathic. You can rules-lawyer all day, but at the end of the day, when a cheater joins, only they and SOMETIMES people who witness their chaos get any enjoyment out of it, meanwhile friendlies will often make other players' days. This isn't a democracy, this is just the facts.

Friendlies do the exact same things.
The exact same things you say in favor of friendlies could be made for cheaters and it would make as much sense.

The only people who like cheaters are cheaters and their supporters, same goes for friendlies. Actual players are not fond of them.

Both ruin normal gameplay for actual players. Both are out of place. Both are disruptive and detrimental for the game. Both are forbidden by rules.

Originally posted by Maximus10113X:

I thought you were all about “equality and inclusion” but you want to kick friendlies out?

I want to hear, or, rather, read your reasoning behind this question..

You really think pro-queers support friendlies but anti-ones don't?
Because it's incorrect, it entirely depends on individual.

There are queers who dislike them, and right-wingers who support them.

[Rim Carrey]

Originally posted by "Kris":

Originally posted by Skolver:

This. though it seems common sense is not so common.

Common sense, which is surface-level reasoning, is inferior to analysis, logic, research, education and science, so I think it's a good thing.

Originally posted by TheRefinedHellion:

This. Literally the difference and all that's needed. Cheaters ruin entire games, make the whole thing unfun for both the team they play on and against, meanwhile friendlies, if you don't like them, you can either ask them to move, go to another game, or kill them if you're that angry, fed up, or psychopathic. You can rules-lawyer all day, but at the end of the day, when a cheater joins, only they and SOMETIMES people who witness their chaos get any enjoyment out of it, meanwhile friendlies will often make other players' days. This isn't a democracy, this is just the facts.

Friendlies do the exact same things.
The exact same things you say in favor of friendlies could be made for cheaters and it would make as much sense.

The only people who like cheaters are cheaters and their supporters, same goes for friendlies. Actual players are not fond of them.

Both ruin normal gameplay for actual players. Both are out of place. Both are disruptive and detrimental for the game. Both are forbidden by rules.

Originally posted by Maximus10113X:

I thought you were all about “equality and inclusion” but you want to kick friendlies out?

I want to hear, or, rather, read your reasoning behind this question..

You really think pro-queers support friendlies but anti-ones don't?
Because it's incorrect, it entirely depends on individual.

There are queers who dislike them, and right-wingers who support them.

It's a casual game dude. If you don't wanna deal with friendlies then play third party competitive or find a community server that doesn't allow it or make your own community server with your own rules. Acting like friendlies should be punished like cheaters is genuine insanity. Boo hoo, you lost a casual match because 1-2 people didn't play how YOU wanted them to play. Tough.

["Kris"]

Originally posted by FISH KILL:

Originally posted by "Kris":

Common sense, which is surface-level reasoning, is inferior to analysis, logic, research, education and science, so I think it's a good thing.

Friendlies do the exact same things.
The exact same things you say in favor of friendlies could be made for cheaters and it would make as much sense.

The only people who like cheaters are cheaters and their supporters, same goes for friendlies. Actual players are not fond of them.

Both ruin normal gameplay for actual players. Both are out of place. Both are disruptive and detrimental for the game. Both are forbidden by rules.

I want to hear, or, rather, read your reasoning behind this question..

You really think pro-queers support friendlies but anti-ones don't?
Because it's incorrect, it entirely depends on individual.

There are queers who dislike them, and right-wingers who support them.

It's a casual game gal. If you don't wanna deal with friendlies then play third party competitive or find a community server that doesn't allow it or make your own community server with your own rules.

Competitive is dead, most actual players who play TF2 want to do so under normal conditions and casually.

They do not want to be obedient to 50/50 rules that were only made for justification, they are super flawed & absurd. Being a friendly, so Idling & griefing, =/= playing in any way.

And this is just drawing attention away from the actual problem.

Why should anyone play the game somewhere else because someone decided to roleplay a VRChat tea party in a team-based PvP shooter game on non-friendly servers like official VALVe ones and/or on non-friendly community servers?

Regardless, to “just” play Competitive, you’d need to become good at the game (probably spending a few thousand hours playing), then you’d have to join a team, get used to the new formats, lose all the freedom Casual offers because of idling griefers for some reason, heavily reduce the map range you play on, and be restricted by ping.

The “just play on community servers” argument that actual players would use makes much more sense -- you need to open the community browser and click on a friendly server.

Friendlies need to do several clicks, actual players need to spend thousands of hours getting good and playing with heavy restrictions.

This is also not a situation where actual players can leave to community servers like with cheaters, but rather an entire community issue.

Cheaters can easily be avoided by going to community servers with active moderations that strike down cheaters, but the mentality of "being a friendly" is still present throughout the whole backbone of the game, to the point where the community has forced this identity throughout the game.

Friendlies came in and just shifted the game from a fun FPS shooter to a daycare dressup simulator where the "gameplay" is spamming voicelines and memes in voice chat, and killbinding when you see the 340,000th A Posing scout because it is "funny" and any deviation from that, like doing the objective or shooting someone in a shooter game, means you are a "tryhard" and need to go to Competitive.

It has gotten so bad that you cannot play the game normally on some maps, and people will be mad at you if you are good at the game.

They will use their fake laws to kick you out of the game not only on Casual servers, but all throughout the community server browser if given the chance, and pin the "toxicity" on regular players.

Furthermore, Casual game of basketball is still basketball.
You're still meant to get the ball through the hoop.

If you join a game and then sit there eating lunch, you're not playing a Casual game of basketball -- you're just getting in everyone's way.

Casual TF2 is not "no objectives just do whatever you want."
Casual TF2 is "TF2 without the restrictions put in place by various leagues in order to make the game more streamlined and palatable for spectators."

That's what Casual means.

The name of something does not determine its properties or its functions. Casual in other games is just crappier Competitive.

Casual has objectives, it has classes to do the objectives, it has teams to fight over the objective, it has guns to point at people and bullets to be loaded into those guns and then fired, it’s also played in first-persyn.

Casual mode is called Casual because it is a more chilled-out game experience with more maps and more chaotic gameplay.

Casual allows you to play a wider range of classes, and if you want to have some fun you can use goofy strategies. Meme strategies are a perfect way to have fun when you are bored, which is what TF2 specializes in, various weapons and playstyles.

Bored of playing the game as a regular Sniper? You can try out the Huntsman or Bushwacka Jarate. You want to play Sniper but normally?
Perfectly fine.

However, what isn’t ok, at all, is if you take up a player space and grief your team (you grief everyone in reality).

It's perfectly fine to play casually if you are using a silly strat, just don't screw over your team or encourage friendly-ing.

Just because it means “Casual” (which you have a wrong idea of what it actually means) it really doesn’t mean you can sit in a corner, so just idling & griefing, while being all mean to people who are ACTUALLY supposed to be in the place.

Friendlies are most likely the ones who say things like "it's not fun when my unbalanced weapons get fixed so people have more fun", then try to upset Competitive players for every (random) reason.

Friendlies also say it's not the same to be a friendly on friendly community servers because "it's boring and expected".

But ruining a match for everyone by being a friendly on a non-friendly server is "unexpected and confusing and fun".

Same mindset cheaters have.

If friendlies actually wanted to be friendly they would just join friendly community servers instead of self-insert.

One brilliant and very handsome person said:
"The most popular class friendlies pick is Heavy, and he has the Eviction Notice. Coincidence?"

Originally posted by FISH KILL:

Acting like friendlies should be punished like cheaters is genuine insanity

Yeah they should be for having such a massive negative impact on the game for reasons I've stated above, they are ironically worse than cheaters:

• https://steamcommunity.com/groups/UEtFaWtC/discussions/0/4027970145569147310/

I'm okay with Casual timeouts too, or:

• https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/2798376099451753871/

so everyone is happy.

Originally posted by FISH KILL:

Boo hoo, you lost a casual match because 1-2 people didn't play how YOU wanted them to play. Tough.

But people are complaining about a couple of cloudwatching Snipers on the enemy team who made them lose the match because they didn't play how they want, that's tough..

[UberNovaful]

Just keep killing them, if they don't want to join a friendly community server, and keep plaguing the casual ones, hey they are a nice free kill and add a taunt for the full experience

[Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp]

That would be a slippery slope. If you reported friendlies and they got banned, what would stop them from reporting any "useless" player who simply isn't skilled enough to perform well, claiming that he's a friendly? It would encourage elitism and gatekeeping.

Also, it's more about toxic pricks rather than friendlies as a whole. They don't have the authority to force a truce in the lobby they are in, and if they keep complaining about being killed, they simply aren't friendlies.

[krkr128]

friendly = free health dispenser