Reworking Sandman

[Recursive Gamer]

After listening to Lister's video again, an idea struck me. To balance the stun mechanic, it needs a requirement that is fairly difficult to pull off. That is, make the stun a combo mechanic.

Sandman

• -10 health on wearer
  
• Alt-Fire: Launches a mean ball that stuns bleeding targets

In essence, to use this, you would have to somehow cause bleeding to a target with the Flying Guillotine or team up with another Scout with bleed effects.
If the ball hits a target that isn't bleeding, then it just deals damage.

[the godmaker]

Origineel geplaatst door jungus:

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

hit enemy once, they instantly take extra damage from EVERYONE in my team including me.

-does not have 20 second cooldown like jarate

-is on a class that actually has enough mobility to get away with it

-can allow anything other than a heavy or soldier to get instantly destroyed

Or, get this: you just shoot and kill them because the Scattergun can hits for 100s. You've achieved the exact same thing with better results without having to hit them with a melee weapon.

funny you should say that because that would apply to the sandman and not the fan-o-war

[jungus]

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

meanwhile sandman:

-slow down is most effective at longer ranges where scout has lower damage

-effect can literally be removed because of a bug

-reduces max hp, making you get one shot by almost anything in the game

You're literally just lying and I already explained why the bug isn't even as impactful as you might think.

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

Origineel geplaatst door jungus:

Or, get this: you just shoot and kill them because the Scattergun can hits for 100s. You've achieved the exact same thing with better results without having to hit them with a melee weapon.

even if that was true, the sandman has this SAME PROBLEM to an even WORSE extent, with a MORE SITUATIONAL upside.

No it doesn't. The Sandman can be applied at range while the Fan-o-war can't. The makes a huge difference in how you use the weapon.

[-Lex Rock-]

Origineel geplaatst door jungus:

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

meanwhile sandman:

-slow down is most effective at longer ranges where scout has lower damage

-effect can literally be removed because of a bug

-reduces max hp, making you get one shot by almost anything in the game

You're literally just lying and I already explained why the bug isn't even as impactful as you might think.

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

even if that was true, the sandman has this SAME PROBLEM to an even WORSE extent, with a MORE SITUATIONAL upside.

No it doesn't. The Sandman can be applied at range while the Fan-o-war can't. The makes a huge difference in how you use the weapon.

"the effect can be applied at range", i alredy adressed this with literally the first thing i said in the comment you replied to.

"you are literally just lying" ok. where was the lie?

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

Origineel geplaatst door jungus:

The stun was removed because it was annoying and overpowered, why are you trying to bring it back? Changing the health penalty from -15 to -10 literally does nothing, it's a meaningless change.

Leave the weapon in its current state, it's perfectly fine.

"perfectly fine" it is arguably the weakest melle weapon in the entire game.

The stock bat is arguably the weakest "melle" weapon in the entire game.

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

Origineel geplaatst door jungus:

If you think this, you've never used the weapon and are entirely basing your opinion on what others have said.

Do you know who has used the weapon? Me, and it's good. -15 health isn't nearly as impactful as it sounds and the bonus is you get to make people free kills if you hit them with the ball.

did you know that the slow down can literally be rendered useless if the enemy strafes? im not joking, that is an actual bug that exists in the game, the sandman has ZERO real upsides.

I know you don't. You don't even know how that bug works, you don't know anything about the bug other than you heard it exists.

Origineel geplaatst door jungus:

You're literally just lying and I already explained why the bug isn't even as impactful as you might think.

Also, if you do the bug to "negate the slowdown" you're literally easier to hit since you've disabled your ability to strafe. Not being able to strafe is even worse than being slower. You either have to exclusively run towards the Scout in a perfectly straight line without strafing even a centimeter while constantly mashing keys, or you can't even attack the Scout at all while you're moving in a perfectly straight line without strafing even a centimeter while constantly mashing keys.

To say that the Sandman is useless because you can "strafe to avoid the slowdown" is like saying that Sniper is useless because you can killbind to avoid being headshot.

[-Lex Rock-]

people keep saying "oh but the slowdown makes you so easy to kill", but there are a few issues with that idea.

1: the vast majority of scouts i have seen using the sandman are not even good enough to land a baseball hit at a range where it can even apply a decent slow down to begin with

2: even if the baseball DOES apply a signficant slow down, it requires the enemy to be far away enough that it is almost certain that they have other team member nearby to protect from the scout.

3: being able to go back to regular speed even if in a straight line makes it signficantly easier to take advantange of point 2.

[jungus]

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

How about you just actually use the weapon instead of making assumptions that aren't true?

[john michael official]

The sandman should just remain unused. Stun mechanics don't work in TF2 because of the natachsa and the scorch shot. The sandman is awful but it's still annoying to play against
Just don't rework it.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Origineel geplaatst door jungus:

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

How about you just actually use the weapon instead of making assumptions that aren't true?

That would require a Team Fortress player to actually play the game instead of just watching YouTube videos about it on their phone while they're being friendly on 2fort, so it's never gonna happen.

Origineel geplaatst door car key eater |HM|:

The sandman should just remain unused. Stun mechanics don't work in TF2 because of the natachsa and the scorch shot. The sandman is awful but it's still annoying to play against
Just don't rework it.

Sandman is literally one of the best melee weapons in the game but ok

[Perfect Cell]

Just make it deal raw damage

[Perfect Cell]

and 25% chance to inverse movements

[Luis the Uma Loving Wizard]

Remove the health penalty and make the slowdown actually worth a damn

Or dont, I still wont use it either way

[-Lex Rock-]

2 pages in and the people arguing against me alredy gave up and resorted to just "im right you are wrong" non arguments, guess i may as well do the same and stop going to this thread.

from my perspective, the sandman is worse than any scout melle other than stock and the sun on a stick, therfore its bad.

bye.

[KaizoTrooper]

Origineel geplaatst door car key eater |HM|:

The sandman should just remain unused. Stun mechanics don't work in TF2 because of the natachsa and the scorch shot. The sandman is awful but it's still annoying to play against
Just don't rework it.

Sandman is literally one of the best melee weapons in the game but ok [/quote]
Explain, Complicated the Crit Clown.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Origineel geplaatst door Luis the Evil Space Wizard:

Remove the health penalty and make the slowdown actually worth a damn

Or dont, I still wont use it either way

They should make the Sandman give you 500 health and the ball oneshots anyone no matter what even if they're Ubered but they give it to Sniper.

Origineel geplaatst door KaizoTrooper:

Explain, Complicated the Crit Clown.

I already did in the previous hundred thousand sandman threads just go search sandman in my post history and read those threads.

[jungus]

Origineel geplaatst door -Lex Rock-:

from my perspective, the sandman is worse than any scout melle other than stock and the sun on a stick, therfore its bad.

bye.

This is precisely why I've given up arguing anything; you hate a weapon you don't use because people said it was bad and nothing else. It's apparent you don't use the Sandman and never will, so why even bother discussing it with you when you've already made up your mind?