Frontier Justice + Gunslinger Mechanics Change

[Boogaclaw]

The F. Justice's main mechanic is to give crits to Engineers who have taken their time to level, protect, and repair their sentry, rewarding them for the hardwork needed to maintain senties. Then along comes the Gunslinger, which throws that idea out the window by allowing Engineers to abandon Mini-Sentries anywhere they please, have them do absolutely no maintainance or upkeep on the sentry, and get free crits. The problem I see with the F. Justice's Mechanic is that it rewards engis who put zero effort into their sentry, just as much as those who put grand amounts of effort into their sentry. I'd feel it'd be most apprpriate for the Mini-Sentry to give mini-crits to the F. Justice, rather than full on crits. It'd be more balanced as the effort would fit the reward, and plus, it just makes sense that "Mini"-sentries should get "Mini"-crits. What do you think,do you agree or disagree, and why.

[grounded in reality]

ever heard of "combat engineer"?

[Ace42]

Nope.

Minis aren't OP, and neither is Frontier Justice.

Neither need a nerf or to be segregated just because bads let Minis get kills and assists before countering them, and can't take out an engy with only three shots in his pocket.

If the (weak) mini sentry is wracking up enough kills and assists to feed the Engi crits, then it's because a team of bads can't shut either of them down.

A L1 sentry has more health, and a higher DPS, are you going to tell us that they don't deserve crits for their sentry's kills either?

The idea that the FJ only "earns" crits if dumb-dumbs walk into the most powerful upgrade of a sentry gun's insta-kill range is dubious to say the least. Babysitting a nest is a lot easier and requires a lot less effort than going Combat Engy.

[[PH]TheNeiljoseph]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Nope.

Minis aren't OP, and neither is Frontier Justice.

Neither need a nerf or to be segregated just because bads let Minis get kills and assists before countering them, and can't take out an engy with only three shots in his pocket.

If the (weak) mini sentry is wracking up enough kills and assists to feed the Engi crits, then it's because a team of bads can't shut either of them down.

A L1 sentry has more health, and a higher DPS, are you going to tell us that they don't deserve crits for their sentry's kills either?

The idea that the FJ only "earns" crits if dumb-dumbs walk into the most powerful upgrade of a sentry gun's insta-kill range is dubious to say the least. Babysitting a nest is a lot easier and requires a lot less effort than going Combat Engy.

I agree with your opinion. I also learned about the FJ and the Gunslinger in my own view.

When I play like a normal player would do, I would place a mini-sentry near the Lvl. 3 Sentry to get assists or lucky kills. I would get more metal and repeat the process again. This help me earn some revenge crits to keep myself out of danger.

That's all I know about these 2 weapons.

[Lagger]

In combo with classic wrench, it gives you that last crit hope when your nest goes down.

Combat Engi, on the other hand, Sacrifices around 70% of his firepower for the means of replacability and mobility. Minis are a very weak weapons in comparsion with normal sentry.

When was the last time you saw a mini kill? They get assists, sure, but only an idiot would stay there and get himself killed.

[noahdvs]

Minis generally can't get as many kills as normal sentries because they're weaker, so you don't get as many crits with the FJ.

[MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™]

Frontier justice is very weak without the crit, if you are behind enemy lines, you are probably going to die.
2 mini sentries uses all your metal.
That or you choose to build a dispenser to help your team, either case is a costly decision, its not "nothing" when you lose sentries gain crits, most of the time with a competent team you won't get any crits from a mini sentry, its 1 sticky bomb and then the demo turns his attention to you.

[Boogaclaw]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Nope.
Minis aren't OP, and neither is Frontier Justice.

I never said that, I simply said that I beleive the mini-sentry should earn mini-crits, as the little effort that went into to making that sentry, should be returned with a little crit.

Originally posted by Lagger -CZE-:

When was the last time you saw a mini kill? They get assists, sure, but only an idiot would stay there and get himself killed.

The sentry alone vs. a player with full health is no struggle whatsoever, but it's when you return from a battle or come into a conflict with the sentry and others, then it can kill. When returning from a fight to find a medkit, a mini can easily shred the 30-70 health you have left. When battling a engi+mini, the engi can take a fair chunk of your health during the battle while the sentry is unrelentingly shooting you, and finishing you off.

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

most of the time with a competent team you won't get any crits from a mini sentry, its 1 sticky bomb and then the demo turns his attention to you.

Then you'd toss down another sentry, and run for it. While it is obvious that lone minis against full healthed players is no competition, but when one has low health, they don't even have time to react to it before it guns them down.

[MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™]

Originally posted by Boogaclaw, King of Pain Trains:

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

most of the time with a competent team you won't get any crits from a mini sentry, its 1 sticky bomb and then the demo turns his attention to you.

Then you'd toss down another sentry, and run for it. While it is obvious that lone minis against full healthed players is no competition, but when one has low health, they don't even have time to react to it before it guns them down.

You have 2 mini sentries, each which take a single sticky to destroy, or 1 if you build a dispenser. That sentry throw down buys you one second before you die. No ones talking about random low health kills, it means nothing, as that works both ways, but like it or not once they are on to you, you are an easy kill, it takes a single demo to just remove you from the battlefield

[Fahrenheit]

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

most of the time with a competent team you won't get any crits from a mini sentry, its 1 sticky bomb and then the demo turns his attention to you.

Then you'd toss down another sentry, and run for it. While it is obvious that lone minis against full healthed players is no competition, but when one has low health, they don't even have time to react to it before it guns them down.

There is usually a reason why people have low health you know. Ususually because they were under fire recently and they escape and usually you use the the sentry to finish off these people. That is how you rack up kills with the gunslinger.

[Boogaclaw]

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

it takes a single demo to just remove you from the battlefield

7/9 Classes can easily kill an engi, but regardless, if you're justifying mini-kills to crits due to difficulty, then I could see that. I'll admit that mini-kills are marginally harder to get than lvl 3 kills. Though I'm arguing about the effort that goes into making the sentry should justify the crits, not difficulty to obtain kills.

[aaa a a aa AAA]

The wrangled mini is a fearsome foe

[Sir Zorba]

The way I see it, it's a similar situation to the degreaser+axtinguisher combo. Neither is OP on its own, and people THINK the combo is OP when it really isn't, which they'd see if they put some real thought into it.

[sarah palin parasailin]

Learn to counter ya scrub. Gunslinger has already been balanced with the build repair fix and the range. Play demo or soldier or sniper or spy. So many options to counter and I honestly don't see why people complain about it.

[flowing english speaker]

Originally posted by Ace42:

Neither need a nerf or to be segregated just because bads let Minis get kills and assists before countering them, and can't take out an engy with only three shots in his pocket.

3 shots is enough to kill any full health class bar overhealed soldier/heavy, and even then, when are you going to be silly enough to fight a heavy as engineer, unless you have some serious advantage over him.

A L1 sentry has more health, and a higher DPS

It has the same DPS actually, level one sentries shoot 16 dmg bullets, and minisentries do half of the damage, whilst shooting at twice the speed.

Just saying.

[Ace42]

Originally posted by Sand Gambler:

3 shots is enough to kill any full health class bar overhealed soldier/heavy,

Only if the Engi is in an optimum position to deal those shots without losing pellets and thus damage.

It has the same DPS actually, level one sentries shoot 16 dmg bullets, and minisentries do half of the damage, whilst shooting at twice the speed.

Deals only 50% the damage per shot of the original Level 1 Sentry Gun. Therefore, DPS is overall lower (48 compared to the normal Sentry Gun's 64).

48 < 64

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sentry_Gun