The Cow Mangler 5000 and righteous bison

[Eyegoblin]

(sorry for bad grammar or spelling)
Hello.

The Cow Mangler has always been one of the weakest rocket launchers in the game and after the gunmettle update it became THE weakest rocket launcher (atleast for me and many others).

I think this is mostly becaus of it's downsides (and it's unlisted downside of having 5% slower reload time).

So I would like you to come up with balances for the weapon. Without changing the weapons mechanic too much. As for the Righteous Bison, it's a decent weapon but it could use a small buff.

Here are my ideas for the weapons:

Cow Mangler 5000:
-80% damage to buildings ----> -50% / 30% less damage to buildings
(this makes it more reliable)
-cannot be crit boosted ----> all crits (kritzkrieg and end round) will be mini crits.

(most important and needed buff) remove the -5% slower reload speed. perhaps even make it 10% faster reload speed . It's a pump so it should make more sense too be faster than loading rockets.

finally for the cow mangler (if considerd balanced with the rest)
Charging a shot will slow you down about 50% -----> -30% walk speed while charging.
charging shot only consumes 3 rockets instead of 4,

The Righteous Bison:
+25% / 35% faster projectile speed
(this makes it harder to dodge them, wich was its main problem)

-80% less damage to buildings ---> -50% / 30% less damage to buildings.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter and on my ideas.
(please be nice too each others suggestions and opinions.)

Thank you.

Sources used: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Cow_Mangler_5000
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison

[Brocc]

yeah, change dmg to buildings and speed up reload time and it would be more fun to use.

[Bismarck Ⅹ]

Originally posted by Eyegoblin8:

Sources used: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Cow_Mangler_5000
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison

Dude, the wiki is trash; everyone knows that.

[Mister B]

I love to use the Mangler from time to time, unlimited ammo is good since I always forget to look at my ammo...

[Jelly Sandwich]

Cow Mangler is a nice noob trap for critz medics. I accidently wasted medic's critz with this weapon several times.

[Milfing station(still alive)]

Cow Mangler has hidden attribute:slower reload.
Valve would need to delete this attribute and reduce building penalty.

[Bismarck Ⅹ]

Originally posted by >♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tf2 regular<:

Cow Mangler has hidden attribute

No it doesn't.

		"441"
		{
			"name"	"The Cow Mangler 5000"
			"first_sale_date"	"2011/07/13"
			"item_class"	"tf_weapon_particle_cannon"
			"craft_class"	"weapon"
			"craft_material_type"	"weapon"
			"capabilities"
			{
				"nameable"		"1"
				"can_gift_wrap" 	"1"
			}
			"tags"
			{
				"can_deal_damage"		"1"
				"can_deal_gib_damage"	"1"
				"can_be_equipped_by_soldier_or_demo"	"1"
				"can_deal_posthumous_damage"	"1"
				"can_deal_long_distance_damage"	"1"
			}
			"item_logname"	"cow_mangler"
			"item_iconname"	"cow_mangler"
			"show_in_armory"	"1"
			"item_type_name"	"#TF_Weapon_FocusedWaveProjector"
			"item_name"	"#TF_CowMangler"
			"item_slot"	"primary"
			"anim_slot" "primary2"
			"item_quality"	"unique"
			"propername"	"1"
			"min_ilevel"	"30"
			"max_ilevel"	"30"
			"image_inventory"	"backpack/weapons/c_models/c_drg_cowmangler/c_drg_cowmangler"
			"image_inventory_size_w"		"128"
			"image_inventory_size_h"		"82"
			"model_player"	"models/weapons/c_models/c_drg_cowmangler/c_drg_cowmangler.mdl"
			"attach_to_hands" "1"
			"used_by_classes"
			{
				"soldier"	"1"
			}
			"attributes"
			{
				"crit mod disabled"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"mult_crit_chance"
					"value"	"0"
				}
				"energy weapon no ammo"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"energy_weapon_no_ammo"
					"value" "1"
				}
				"energy weapon charged shot"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"energy_weapon_charged_shot"
					"value" "1"
				}
				"energy weapon no hurt building"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"energy_weapon_no_hurt_building"
					"value" "1"
				}
				"no crit boost"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"no_crit_boost"
					"value" "1"
				}
			}
			"visuals"
			{
				"sound_single_shot"	"Weapon_CowMangler.Single"
				"sound_burst"		"Weapon_CowMangler.SingleCharged"
				"sound_reload"		"Weapon_CowMangler.Reload"
				"sound_special1"	"Weapon_CowMangler.Charging"
				"sound_special2"	"Weapon_CowMangler.Idle"
			}
			"mouse_pressed_sound"	"ui/item_heavy_gun_pickup.wav"
			"drop_sound"		"ui/item_heavy_gun_drop.wav"
		} 

See the word "HIDDEN" in there? Yeah, neither do I.

[Milfing station(still alive)]

Originally posted by Bismarck X:

Originally posted by >♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tf2 regular<:

Cow Mangler has hidden attribute

No it doesn't.

		"441"
		{
			"name"	"The Cow Mangler 5000"
			"first_sale_date"	"2011/07/13"
			"item_class"	"tf_weapon_particle_cannon"
			"craft_class"	"weapon"
			"craft_material_type"	"weapon"
			"capabilities"
			{
				"nameable"		"1"
				"can_gift_wrap" 	"1"
			}
			"tags"
			{
				"can_deal_damage"		"1"
				"can_deal_gib_damage"	"1"
				"can_be_equipped_by_soldier_or_demo"	"1"
				"can_deal_posthumous_damage"	"1"
				"can_deal_long_distance_damage"	"1"
			}
			"item_logname"	"cow_mangler"
			"item_iconname"	"cow_mangler"
			"show_in_armory"	"1"
			"item_type_name"	"#TF_Weapon_FocusedWaveProjector"
			"item_name"	"#TF_CowMangler"
			"item_slot"	"primary"
			"anim_slot" "primary2"
			"item_quality"	"unique"
			"propername"	"1"
			"min_ilevel"	"30"
			"max_ilevel"	"30"
			"image_inventory"	"backpack/weapons/c_models/c_drg_cowmangler/c_drg_cowmangler"
			"image_inventory_size_w"		"128"
			"image_inventory_size_h"		"82"
			"model_player"	"models/weapons/c_models/c_drg_cowmangler/c_drg_cowmangler.mdl"
			"attach_to_hands" "1"
			"used_by_classes"
			{
				"soldier"	"1"
			}
			"attributes"
			{
				"crit mod disabled"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"mult_crit_chance"
					"value"	"0"
				}
				"energy weapon no ammo"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"energy_weapon_no_ammo"
					"value" "1"
				}
				"energy weapon charged shot"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"energy_weapon_charged_shot"
					"value" "1"
				}
				"energy weapon no hurt building"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"energy_weapon_no_hurt_building"
					"value" "1"
				}
				"no crit boost"
				{
					"attribute_class"	"no_crit_boost"
					"value" "1"
				}
			}
			"visuals"
			{
				"sound_single_shot"	"Weapon_CowMangler.Single"
				"sound_burst"		"Weapon_CowMangler.SingleCharged"
				"sound_reload"		"Weapon_CowMangler.Reload"
				"sound_special1"	"Weapon_CowMangler.Charging"
				"sound_special2"	"Weapon_CowMangler.Idle"
			}
			"mouse_pressed_sound"	"ui/item_heavy_gun_pickup.wav"
			"drop_sound"		"ui/item_heavy_gun_drop.wav"
		} 

See the word "HIDDEN" in there? Yeah, neither do I.

Ok,maybe not hidden,but not mentioned.
You can't deny the fact Mangler has a slower reload speed

[Bismarck Ⅹ]

Originally posted by >♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tf2 regular<:

Ok,maybe not hidden,but not mentioned.
You can't deny the fact Mangler has a slower reload speed

I believe the term you're looking for is "Inherent attribute".

Originally posted by Eyegoblin8:

wich wiki would you suggest then?

None.

[Eyegoblin]

Originally posted by Bismarck X:

Originally posted by Eyegoblin8:

Sources used: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Cow_Mangler_5000
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison

Dude, the wiki is trash; everyone knows that.

wich wiki would you suggest then?

[Alchemist Endrew]

The Bison's cool thing is that it penetrates, and is able to hit enemies multiple times, especially if they move in the direction the projectile is going. A faster speed would mean less damage.

[Milfing station(still alive)]

Originally posted by Bismarck X:

Originally posted by >♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tf2 regular<:

Ok,maybe not hidden,but not mentioned.
You can't deny the fact Mangler has a slower reload speed

I believe the term you're looking for is "Inherent attribute".

Originally posted by Eyegoblin8:

wich wiki would you suggest then?

None.

If that's how you would call it,then yes mr.joke train.

[Eyegoblin]

Originally posted by Alchemist Endrew:

The Bison's cool thing is that it penetrates, and is able to hit enemies multiple times, especially if they move in the direction the projectile is going. A faster speed would mean less damage.

That is true, but they could slightly increase the projectile speed and damage so the damage per ''second'' stay the same. If you get what I'm saying.

[Red Z]

They should lower the damage penalty to buildings as this is one of the main jobs a Soldier has to fullfill - destroying buildings.
Under normal conditions, the Cow-Mangler is somewhat identical to the Stock Rocket Launcher when it comes to hurting players in terms of damage. The reload speed however, is slower but that is not necassarily a bad thing, Valve should just mention it.
The main feature of the Cow Mangler is the secondary attack which makes you charge a shot that deals minicrits and sets targets on fire. In my personal opinion however, doing this charged shot is almost never worth it. Rarely are 30% more damage and then having to reload an entire clip better than just firing the four Rockets one after another.
And exactly that is the point where this weapon should get a buff. What is often seen with the charged shot is to fire it at a group of people. So it would make sense to buff the splash radius for a charged shot and maybe increase the damage boost slightly. It doesn't have to be a minicrit sort of thing. Why not just say +40% damage on charged shot?

TL;DR: buff the damage buff and splash radius for the charged shot, lower the damage penalty towards buildings slightly and mention the reload speed penalty in the attributes.

[Eyegoblin]

Originally posted by Red Z:

They should lower the damage penalty to buildings as this is one of the main jobs a Soldier has to fullfill - destroying buildings.
Under normal conditions, the Cow-Mangler is somewhat identical to the Stock Rocket Launcher when it comes to hurting players in terms of damage. The reload speed however, is slower but that is not necassarily a bad thing, Valve should just mention it.
The main feature of the Cow Mangler is the secondary attack which makes you charge a shot that deals minicrits and sets targets on fire. In my personal opinion however, doing this charged shot is almost never worth it. Rarely are 30% more damage and then having to reload an entire clip better than just firing the four Rockets one after another.
And exactly that is the point where this weapon should get a buff. What is often seen with the charged shot is to fire it at a group of people. So it would make sense to buff the splash radius for a charged shot and maybe increase the damage boost slightly. It doesn't have to be a minicrit sort of thing. Why not just say +40% damage on charged shot?

TL;DR: buff the damage buff and splash radius for the charged shot, lower the damage penalty towards buildings slightly and mention the reload speed penalty in the attributes.

Not a bad idea.
quit good.

[sudfhe]

They should add an attribute that improves the Righteous Bison in conjunction with the Cowmangler's secondary charged shot. Something like bonus damage to burning players? Bonus projectile speed would also be a nice touch for the Bison.

As for the Cow Mangler, I agree that reduced reload speed would be good, to improve the weapon id say make the energy beams invulnerable to airblast for both the cow mangler and bison. I think the damage stat is fine as is.