TF2 AI Bots; WIP Discussion; where they succeed, and where they fail

[yattadaro]

Introduction

TF2 is, undoubtebly, is best played as a multiplayer game (however to some extent the quality of players may convince some otherwise). So, unsuprisingly, AI in such a multiplayer game might pertain to some features that, in other words, cause people to go ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.[www.reddit.com] So, i've spent a bit of time with the TF2 bots, collecting information, and now i believe i have had a long enough personal experience to provide valuable informations and suggestions on the subject.

This first part of the discussion will be each class and their specific weapons, and how they are used. I won't talk about the melees, since none of the bots use them. That's a topic for later...

Scout

Scout bots have a major problem; they overuse the pistol where a scattergun would be a much better option. Secondary usage is a great positive for bots, but when we talk about the Scout, he shouldn't be using the Pistol as a pick weapon.

Scout bots usually pull out their Scattergun, fire off a shot or two, and then switch to their pistol. It's not hard to deal with them at all; it's just annoying. If Valve really wants to make this amusing, though, i suggest they use the bat instead of the melee, jumping around and employing confusion tactics. Of course, it won't work on other bots, but by that time, they'll be dead. If we want to get practical, though, just Scattergun is the obvious way to go.

Soldier

I have a lot to say here. Soldier is generally the most used class by TF2 bots. Here's the problem; it's generally the most used class by TF2 bots. Groups of Soldiers are known for taking down enemies quickly and efficently, espeically bots. Bot Soldiers are generally competent, knowing how to blast you up into the air and get some airshots. Yeah. 5 airshotting soldiers. You might see the problem here; thats merely a might. Generally, bots should spread out their class variety more; we have a team with 12 bots; assign 9 bots to be one of the classes, but not stack on any others, then leave the remaining 3 bots to be flexible ones that can change class at a whim. It's not realistic, but i don't think that's one thing bots need to be right now.

It makes me very happy to see bot Soldiers using their shotguns; one of my major complaints about Soldiers is they always try to shoot rockets at you, even when you are standing right in front of them and shooting you probably will kill them in the process, even when you have a melee at easy access on your button 3. I think this really gives newer players an idea of when to use their other weapons instead of their primaries, and should cover them till they get their gunboats/buff banners. That's very good gameplay practice teaching.

Pyro

Pyro bots are generally fairly well built, but i think that's partly due to the fact they won't ever do much other than w+m1 and airblast. They use their flamethrowers to a non-infuriating extent, which makes me happy, because the last thing i need is to be swarmed by Pyros. Speaking of Pyros, Pyro bots are silly. This one time, i was a sniper, and there were about 5 enemy pyros on the cart, all trying to nail me from 10m away with an endless barrage of shotguns. I think you get the idea, but i probably wouldn't have it any other way.

Demoman

Demomen are really annoying. Usually, to the extent you see Demomen in real games, they won't be as frustrating castrating as they are in bot games. Whenever you see Soldiers, they usually fire their rocket launcher infrequently and hold back on spamming. Whenever you see Demoman, they'll spam their Grenade Launcher constantly, and due to explosion range, you'll be bound to get hit, simply due to how many Grenades there are. You could argue this could be perpetrated by real players, too, but for real players, they'll usually switch to their secondary if the Grenade Launcher isn't working. Bots? Primary all the way.

Demoman is the one class i'm really dissapointed in due to the low melee usage rate. I'd hunger to see a demoman drinking down a bottle of beer, standing on my spread-out corpse parts, rather then doing a silly dance that probably embarasses him more then it's worth.

Speaking about the Stickybomb Launcher taunt kill, bot Demomen seem to be more focused on using their Stickybomb Launcher as a defense, trap laying weapon rather than a firefight weapon. As a result, you'll find a lot more annoying stickybomb traps then you'd find in a normal game, and they're impossible to get rid of, since your team doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥.

Heavy

A stock equipment Heavy doesn't have many other things to do then rush in and minigun people down, and it does it quite well, i have to say. Nothing quite much to comment here. If you were looking for intresting Heavy shotgun fights, you won't find it here, but he's still pretty entertaining.

Engineer

Engineer himself, disregarding his Sentry, is very sloppy at defending himself with his shotgun. He misses a lot of shots, and he barely pulls out his pistol, but when he does, he's even easier to take out then a pistol Scout.

Speaking of his Sentry, this is where the problem with my "balance teams out" idea earlier on comes into play. Bots are ****ing hopeless at taking down sentries, and the only salvage are the millions of Soldiers. I don't need to explain this any further.

Medic

Bot Medics are very intresting. Normally, they won't care to heal you, but if you look at them and call for Medic (when you look at them specifically), they'll usually horsetail you like Kotaku and contreversy. However, calling them or not, they'll usually pop their uber on you if you're in the middle of the battle, even if you run in as a spy with a l'etranger.

Here's a match-breaking bug, and yes, i've tried this on maps with natural bot navigation paths; The entire team usually follows a stuck Medic, and they get stuck, making an entire team get trapped. I had this happen amusingly on Upward, where they got stuck on the attack team tunnels spawn point, circling around a pole.

Sniper

Snipers are not employed on training, most likely due to how broken they are. They will, and they will always, either get a headshot, or a bodyshot. There seems to be no middle ground, even if you are a scout moving at rediculous speeds. Sound bad? Bot Snipers usually charge their sniper rifles more then you'd find a normal player to do, making every bodyshot sting more. Since it's not a training bot, i don't really want to say anything more, but their aim is impeccable.

The next class one is about Spy, but it's both about playing against and as Spy.

Vs/As Spy

Spies are also not employed on training. They wreck a lot of havoc on your team, but they usually never go for you. It's not really something that can be said much about that attacks your team more than you, but other than that, it's pretty competent.

Playing as Spy is a hellhole. Three things; enemies bunch up together, Engineers stray from their sentries a lot, and Soldiers. It's hard to get a stab and then get away again, even with the Dead Ringer. Found one time i escaped narrowly with the Dead Ringer, only for the Soldier attacking me to fire another couple of rounds at me again, not aiming at anyone in particular. Except air. Air that just so happens to have me in it.

Now we move onto the next part; how well the bots interact with each gamemode.

Attack/Defense

Arguably, bots interact the best with the Attack/Defense gamemode. They defend points fairly well, they attack points fairly well; maps last for a fair amount of time. You'll see sentries be put in their respective places, ect. It seems fairly okay.

Capture The Flag

CTF isn't available in Training mode, and i guess i have a decent reason why. It could be argued my perceptions of CTF are warped because i "didn't optimize the navigation path patterns rawr" but if Borneo lasts longer then 2Fort, you have a problem. So yes, i went 2Fort, the map generally known to never end, also associated with Hightower. Team rushes enemy intel and we win in about 4 minutes. There is absolutely no defense employed; i saw not a single Sentry, on the map of sentry heaven. That's just sad.

Edit; Bots never go Engie on CTF.

Payload

On a basic level, other then the follow-the-medic bug i mentioned earlier that i've had happen with Upward and Borneo, Payload functions fairly well with bots. You'll have competent sentry positions, stalwart defense, concentrated attacks and the like. Not much to say here either, like A/D.

King Of The Hill

I've only tried two maps with KOTH, but from what i've seen, there's competent sentry placement, compentent formations, ect. What i'd really like to see is better defense; the enemy team easily re-take the point, no matter how hard you spam your sentry and how many kills your Frontier Justice ragemode reaped.

Conclusion

There is no conclusion; this is not complete yet, as i currently have my time taken up with other things, so expect to see some expansion.

[G_lad]

Still smarter than majority of F2Ps

[[e-mail]]

I've played well over 300 hours offline, but never against bots. o-o

[xenon]

TF2 PLAYER SKILL TIER LIST

F-
trader
friendly

F
f2p (99% of this forum)

E
tf2bot

D
rcbot

C
pubscrub

B
pubmaster

A
comp

A+
league

[xenon]

Escrito originalmente por Meowcats (Zalinto):

I've played well over 300 hours offline, but never against bots. o-o

i actually installed rcbot once and modified the c++ code a bit, put crutchgreaser + reserve crutch pyro in, impossible to hit with rockets due to them being reflected with 100% probability

good for practice

[yattadaro]

Updated thread with gamemode information.

[Stucklebecher!]

tbh, I would like to see to bots in valve servers, since some are just plain empty and there class balance is thrown off. It would be interesting to at least have a bot or two on your team that will constantly try. If I were to decide the implementation of bots, not on all servers tho, since some people go ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (in a negative way) if they even smell a bot, and they should be around 12-16 bots, which will keep the server from being completly empty, but not overfilled.
Otherwise, I agree with your spectations on bots.