So about the soda popper...

[Vror]

Why does no one feels that this weapon doesn't belong to TF2?

I'm talking about it stat wise btw, the design is funny and cool, but the gameplay of it is extremely toxic to play against

It makes the scout even harder for projectile classes to hit and it also makes the scout have a higher DPS without losing DPM overall thanks to the reload speed

[gianni]

The gun should do the same damage as the FaN if it doesn’t already

[Marukuso]

Yeah it's dumb but to put it simply it's way less effective in pubs than in a 6s settings, so its stench doesnt spread that much in the community.

[Vror]

Originally posted by solar controller:

The gun should do the same damage as the FaN if it doesn’t already

FaN does more in 1 shot at extremely close distance than the soda popper, but the soda popper doesn't push the enemy away and also has a faster reload speed

[Marukuso]

Originally posted by solar controller:

The gun should do the same damage as the FaN if it doesn’t already

FaN does more damage than the scattergun. Pellet count increases damage more than directly altering damage.

[Vror]

Originally posted by Marukuso:

Yeah it's dumb but to put it simply it's way less effective in pubs than in a 6s settings, so its stench doesnt spread that much in the community.

It's not really less efective in pubs

It's not like gunboats soldier where the banners dominate casual while gunboats 6s, soda popper dominates in both casual and comp setting

[Marukuso]

Originally posted by Vror:

Originally posted by Marukuso:

Yeah it's dumb but to put it simply it's way less effective in pubs than in a 6s settings, so its stench doesnt spread that much in the community.

It's not really less efective in pubs

It's not like gunboats soldier where the banners dominate casual while gunboats 6s, soda popper dominates in both casual and comp setting

Not really, jumping 5 times doesnt help you against sentries and 2 shotting people with it requires you to get close, completely unload your clip and get 1 kill, that means youll probably find yourself near 5 enemies and you gotta reload, also 200 instant damage is still not enough against the large influx of pocketed heavies, a scattergun's 6 clip is somewhat crucial in 12v12 because in there scout relies mostly on applying pressure and drawn out fights.

[gianni]

Really? Fan feels like it does the same damage as scattergun

[Vror]

Originally posted by Marukuso:

Originally posted by Vror:

It's not really less efective in pubs

It's not like gunboats soldier where the banners dominate casual while gunboats 6s, soda popper dominates in both casual and comp setting

Not really, jumping 5 times doesnt help you against sentries and 2 shotting people with it requires you to get close, completely unload your clip and get 1 kill, that means youll probably find yourself near 5 enemies and you gotta reload, also 200 instant damage is still not enough against the large influx of pocketed heavies, a scattergun's 6 clip is somewhat crucial in 12v12 because in there scout relies mostly on applying pressure and drawn out fights.

Having your scattergun also doesn't help against sentries, the point overall is not something that helps scattergun

You could do mid range shots, the RELOAD SPEED (the most busted part of it) allows you to do so without really losing DPM compared to the scattergun

In competitive scout also has the role of applying pressure and punishing overextending enemies (while of course sometimes flank). You don't especifically lose this while using the soda popper otherwise it wouldn't have been banned. You can do everything the scattergun does with the soda popper, and sometimes even better

Don't trust me? Here's some math

200 damage for the scattergun (at closest range) takes 0.625 seconds, but for the soda popper (at closest range) it only takes 0.3125 seconds. Half the time for the soda popper

300 damage for the scattergun at closest range takes 1.25 seconds, but for the soda popper at closest range, it takes 1.4458 seconds. Soda popper takes ~14% more time to achieve 300 damage than the scattergun

400 damage for the scattergun at closest range takes 1.875 seconds, but for the soda popper at closest range, it takes 1.7583 seconds. Scattergun takes ~7% more time to achieve 400 damage than the soda popper

It's hard to find players above 200 health, and if they're, they will probably take more than 300 to kill them (overhealed heavies), so the soda popper will most of the times be benefitial. and here I'm being generous, because I'm not taking into account the scattergun having to reload at all, but in a normal match you will have to be constantly reloading with the scattergun

[Vror]

Originally posted by solar controller:

Really? Fan feels like it does the same damage as scattergun

FaN does -10% damage (if each pellet would do 9, and there are 10 pellets, then 10% of 9 is 0.9, or 1 to make things easier), meaning it would do 80 damage without taking the extra scattergun rampup, where the scattergun would do 90

But it has 20% more pellets (2 more pellets), so to that 80 we add 16 (8x2) and it would be 96

96 > 90, so with the rampup it will also remain the same, FaN will do more damage than stock if every pellet connects from both weapons

[Marukuso]

Of course this is all assuming, you dont miss, deal always full damage, and so on.
Maybe in the setting you play in DPM has a meaning but not much in one where dispensers are stacked up in corners and 2 medics per team are a common occurence.

Thing is im agreeing with you on the gun needing a change and getting rid of the reload speed bonus (and maybe even reduce the firing speed bonus if thats not enough), i'm just saying that noone talks about it because it has aspects that are not suitable for 12v12.

[Vror]

Originally posted by Marukuso:

Of course this is all assuming, you dont miss, deal always full damage, and so on.
Maybe in the setting you play in DPM has a meaning but not much in one where dispensers are stacked up in corners and 2 medics per team are a common occurence.

Thing is im agreeing with you on the gun needing a change and getting rid of the reload speed bonus (and maybe even reduce the firing speed bonus if thats not enough), i'm just saying that noone talks about it because it has aspects that are not suitable for 12v12.

Missing should never be taking into consideration because that's a player skill issue, and the the soda popper does the exact same damage than stock so this would apply to almost any range, soda popper will win every time it takes only 2 or more than 3 shots to kill the enemy

[Roboloke04]

The soda popper is the only scattergun that can seriously rival stock.

That being said it is weird to not see as many people use it.

I guess people don't like reloading constantly? idk.

[Vror]

Originally posted by Roboloke04:

The soda popper is the only scattergun that can seriously rival stock.

That being said it is weird to not see as many people use it.

I guess people don't like reloading constantly? idk.

That's what weirds me out. Everything indicates that the soda popper is better overall, but here we are

[fakeloo]

i think the problem is just information, people legitimately just don't know how crazy the soda popper is. on paper i'd actually say the soda popper is probably better in pubs simply because you have more meat on the enemy team to build meter off of? but how often do you really see soda popper scout

[Uscari]

I struggle to understand the concept of the weapon.

At least with Force of Nature, the clip penalty synergizes with the knockback by indicating that it's a fast-hitting, support-oriented Scout primary that dazes and stuns enemies, at the cost of relative firepower/deathmatching capability.

The Soda Popper's clip penalty has absolutely no relevance to the jumping stat, and the reload speed bonus gives it very similar DPM than stock Scattergun.

What is the trade supposed to be with this weapon? Also, are the 5 jumps intended to be a deathmatching bonus or a form of advanced mobility to access unusual flank routes?

I also similarly have to agree that being able to nullify projectiles by spamming spacebar is not appropriate, especially for a combat class that already has all the tools they need to compete with explosive classes.

I struggle to think of a rework for this weapon because I don't grasp the concept, I don't know what the developers intended when they released this.