Loch and load is better than stock

[Zimbabwe Fetus Defusal]

I have tried to use the stock launcher for so long, and I always feel like i only get kills out of luck, or the rare moment when I actually predict my opponent

but just today I started use a loch again, and its instantly just easier

Who cares if I have one less pipe if I can land more?

[ye olde wiz]

Because it's a crutch not that it really matters though

[ktulu84]

you forgot the part where I cant hit a single pipe with loch n load which instantly makes it the worst weapon in the game

[Insomnia]

Agreed. I love Loch n' Load. It's funny when people say it's a crutch when it truly isn't. Though I don't like the firing sound compared to the other grenade rifles. I make sure to change the sound file.

[ye olde wiz]

Originally posted by Insomnia:

Agreed. I love Loch n' Load. It's funny when people say it's a crutch when it truly isn't. Though I don't like the firing sound compared to the other grenade rifles. I make sure to change the sound file.

I mean, it really is a crutch. Easier pipes for less ammo

[Zimbabwe Fetus Defusal]

Originally posted by milky:

Originally posted by Insomnia:

Agreed. I love Loch n' Load. It's funny when people say it's a crutch when it truly isn't. Though I don't like the firing sound compared to the other grenade rifles. I make sure to change the sound file.

I mean, it really is a crutch. Easier pipes for less ammo

i fell like its less luck and more skill cause even if you make predictions with the stock grenade launcher you wont hit your shots all the time. At least with the loch and load you dont have to give your enemy a 3 week notice whenever you try to shoot them

[Mcfighter2]

Originally posted by milky:

Originally posted by Insomnia:

Agreed. I love Loch n' Load. It's funny when people say it's a crutch when it truly isn't. Though I don't like the firing sound compared to the other grenade rifles. I make sure to change the sound file.

I mean, it really is a crutch. Easier pipes for less ammo

Any good player can dodge stock pipes easily because of how slow they are. Loch n Load is much harder to dodge and gives Demoman a farther effective range where his sticky bombs need to be charged to do that, which takes time.
Not to mention its ability to 2-tap level threes with ease.

[jungus]

I like it for destroying buildings.

[SonukYildiz]

i dont care how good or bad it is, the weapon model is lit af and wish valve did this as default weapon model instead of whatever the f*ck is now

[Shiro]

So
- No rollers (huge for hybrid, as you can use rollers to grenade jump, and also less ability to hurt snipers/engies from behind a cover)
- Less clip means less damage per clip vs enemy players. Important at fighting heavies, soldiers.
+ Extra damage vs buildings... which you usually easily demolish with stickies anyway. And wrangler, or random enemy taking a pill to the face instead of sentry, or second engie helping outheal, or whatever - will result in sentry not dying to 2-3 loch n load pills anyway
+ Faster projectile speed means you can hit targets more often... but still not always. All depends on your aim and prediction, and target's evasion.

Overall its not really a "crutch" nor it is a good worthy sidegrade. Its niche weapon, useful in some situations, but in general being simply outclassed by its brethen.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Shiro:

So
- No rollers (huge for hybrid, as you can use rollers to grenade jump, and also less ability to hurt snipers/engies from behind a cover)
- Less clip means less damage per clip vs enemy players. Important at fighting heavies, soldiers.
+ Extra damage vs buildings... which you usually easily demolish with stickies anyway. And wrangler, or random enemy taking a pill to the face instead of sentry, or second engie helping outheal, or whatever - will result in sentry not dying to 2-3 loch n load pills anyway
+ Faster projectile speed means you can hit targets more often... but still not always. All depends on your aim and prediction, and target's evasion.

Overall its not really a "crutch" nor it is a good worthy sidegrade. Its niche weapon, useful in some situations, but in general being simply outclassed by its brethen.

You left out the most important mechanic of the loch: The grenades don't tumble. That means even before the projectile speed bonus they travel farther than stock and are less subject to physics RNG.

It's quite a large difference compared to stock grenades which tumble and get more screwed over more by air resistance even with good aim.

That mechanic alone prevents it from being a crutch because it means skilled players will still land pipes more consistently than stock.

[UNCLEWOKIAN DANEBOT MIND-VIRUS]

performing the bottle taunt to take a swig every time people forget that faster projectile speed actually means wider area of influence and if you ask me this is a fair trade-off for just one less pipe. it could always be worse. it could always be the quickiebomb launcher.

[Shiro]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

You left out the part where the grenades don't tumble and thus travel farther and are less subject to physics RNG.

It's quite a large difference compared to stock grenades which tumble and get more screwed over more air resistance even with good aim.

Originally posted by POOP'S CLOSED. DUE TO GLUE.:

performing the bottle taunt to take a swig every time people forget that faster projectile speed actually means wider area of influence and if you ask me this is a fair trade-off for just one less pipe.

Yes, hitting at long range with the class meant to fight at medium range is one of those specific situations. You either avoid those situations and go to fight at the range you're actually comfortable at, or (as stock demo) you have the option of charging your sticky bombs and actually hitting whatever is there with your explosions.

it could always be worse. it could always be the quickiebomb launcher.

Quickiebomb launcher is not only a decent weapon overall, it's also outshines loch n load's supposed range advantage.

[Quill]

M1 + M2

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Shiro:

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

You left out the part where the grenades don't tumble and thus travel farther and are less subject to physics RNG.

It's quite a large difference compared to stock grenades which tumble and get more screwed over more air resistance even with good aim.

Originally posted by POOP'S CLOSED. DUE TO GLUE.:

performing the bottle taunt to take a swig every time people forget that faster projectile speed actually means wider area of influence and if you ask me this is a fair trade-off for just one less pipe.

Yes, hitting at long range with the class meant to fight at medium range is one of those specific situations. You either avoid those situations and go to fight at the range you're actually comfortable at, or (as stock demo) you have the option of charging your sticky bombs and actually hitting whatever is there with your explosions.

it could always be worse. it could always be the quickiebomb launcher.

Quickiebomb launcher is not only a decent weapon overall, it's also outshines loch n load's supposed range advantage.

Range is irrelevant. Grenade tumble introduces RNG in every shot fired, no matter the skill or range. The loch does not have this because the grenades fire perfectly still.

[Vror]

Loch n load is better against good players

Stock is better against bad players