Why has TF2 failed to have a competive gaming scene?

[oblivion locksmith]

is it because the skill ceiling of the game is too low for it to be taken seriously in the competitive e sports world? or is it because pyro is the meta in the hands of any good player and maining anything else means being a casual with a preference for gimmicky roles vs optimal stack?

besides marketing, why do games like overwatch have a much bigger competitive scene and being good at the game warrants a whole esports league while being good tf2 just makes you an insufferable sweatlord?

[Xi jing ping pong]

Ai generated garbage

[Maverick-AI Based NPC Observer]

Team Fortress 2 (TF2) does have a competitive scene, though it may not be as prominent as some other esports. The reasons for the scale of its competitive scene are multifaceted. Here are some factors to consider:

1. Game Design: TF2's design is more casual and varied, with a focus on different classes and a more relaxed playstyle. This can affect the perception of its skill ceiling.
   
2. Community: TF2 has a dedicated community that supports its competitive scene, but it's largely community-led and not as heavily promoted by Valve, the game's developer.
   
3. Market Dynamics: Newer games like Overwatch have benefited from substantial marketing efforts and developer support, which have helped establish a larger competitive presence.

Overwatch's success in the esports league can be attributed to several factors:

1. Developer Support: Blizzard has invested heavily in the Overwatch League, providing infrastructure, marketing, and financial support.
   
2. Professionalism: The league mimics traditional sports leagues with city-based teams, which has attracted investors and created a more professional atmosphere.
   
3. Broadcasting: Overwatch League matches are broadcasted with high production value, making them appealing to a wide audience

While TF2's competitive scene might not have the same visibility as Overwatch's, it doesn't mean that the skill ceiling is low or that the game isn't taken seriously. It's more about how the game has been positioned in the market and the level of support it receives from its developers and the broader gaming community. Being good at TF2 does require skill and dedication, and there are many who appreciate the depth and strategy of its gameplay. The difference in competitive scenes also reflects the different approaches of the game developers and the communities that have formed around these games.

[Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp]

Blizzard kinda forced Overwatch to become an esport. Valve has attempted it, and abandoned it when it failed.

[vid23]

Originally posted by Kill All Knickers:

why do games like overwatch have a much bigger competitive scene

So big the devs shut down their own league. It pretty much works the same way as it does in TF2. Being handled by 3rd parties. Like Face it etc.

[Maverick-AI Based NPC Observer]

Originally posted by Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp:

Blizzard kinda forced Overwatch to become an esport. Valve has attempted it, and abandoned it when it failed.

I think it's more fair to say Valve has pretended to attempt.

[rocketgreentea]

Because it's not, and will never be, a competitive game. There's a reason "competitive" removes 90% of the game's content, because the game wasn't designed to be competitive.

[Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp]

Originally posted by rocketgreentea:

Because it's not, and will never be, a competitive game. There's a reason "competitive" removes 90% of the game's content, because the game wasn't designed to be competitive.

I'm still convinced that unrestricted comp wouldn't be bad, and that the comp people are simply too afraid to break a working system. Aside from a few exceptions (like Mad Milk, Jarate, Wrangler...), TF2 is actually quite balanced.

But yeah, TF2 is primarily a casual game.

[Spartykins]

Originally posted by Fireschlong #2Broke4MannUp:

Originally posted by rocketgreentea:

Because it's not, and will never be, a competitive game. There's a reason "competitive" removes 90% of the game's content, because the game wasn't designed to be competitive.

I'm still convinced that unrestricted comp wouldn't be bad, and that the comp people are simply too afraid to break a working system. Aside from a few exceptions (like Mad Milk, Jarate, Wrangler...), TF2 is actually quite balanced.

But yeah, TF2 is primarily a casual game.

I'd argue the reason formats are the way they are is because of the years of experimentation to find what works

I'd like to have more recent data on what would happen with everything unrestricted and no limits though for the hell of it though

[King Neopren]

Maybe cuz to the difference between casual game and competitive game, Casual is a 12v12 mayhem where everyone does their own thing, if you get killed in casual its no big deal most of the time since there will be still another 11 guys to hold the line and watch the flank, in competitive getting caugh out of position or getting picked from afar could mean getting pushed back into spawn and be forced to throw everything you have into a last stand defense. Meanwhile, if you look at other truly competitive games, there is no difference between casual play and competitive play other than the integration of a ranking system, dota, rainbow six siege, lol, valorant and csgo (it has a casual mode similar to tf2, but the game was MADE for 5v5 matches, adding more players destroys the balance of the maps)

[Witch]

What benefits would it have of being a big esport anyway?

[ɐǝ⅄]

Valve never designed TF2 to be an esport and most of the community doesn't care for the competitive side anyway.

Originally posted by rocketgreentea:

Because it's not, and will never be, a competitive game. There's a reason "competitive" removes 90% of the game's content, because the game wasn't designed to be competitive.

[Hank Hill]

Originally posted by terminal poop fetish:

is it because the skill ceiling of the game is too low for it to be taken seriously in the competitive e sports world? or is it because pyro is the meta in the hands of any good player and maining anything else means being a casual with a preference for gimmicky roles vs optimal stack?

besides marketing, why do games like overwatch have a much bigger competitive scene and being good at the game warrants a whole esports league while being good tf2 just makes you an insufferable sweatlord?

6v6 only works with a small minority of classes and highlander is a gimmick. the reason why these are the most popular formats isn't because they are better or anything its just easier to gather 12 people than say 24 so you will see more action with a smaller playerbase

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)󠀰 󠀰]

Originally posted by rocketgreentea:

Because it's not, and will never be, a competitive game. There's a reason "competitive" removes 90% of the game's content, because the game wasn't designed to be competitive.

Didn't know Engie and Scout's secondaries make up 90% of the game's content

[santiago]

Overwatch launched as a game with competitive as its main focus. It funneled tons of money into orgs, sponsorships, and tournaments. It balanced around competitive metas and had serious matchmaking.
Tf2 is lucky enough to get a blog post advertising a LAN event. It launched in 2007 and has a fervent playerbase who feels like any sort of change that compliments competitive gameplay will directly kill the game.

Competitive is an alternative gamemode in tf2 whereas in overwatch it’s the crème de crème.

[santiago]

Originally posted by Italian shoe shiner:

its just easier to gather 12 people than say 24 so you will see more action with a smaller playerbase

Faceit held 12v12 no restrictions tournaments and they sucked go figure.
Maybe tf2 needs to be sanitized so that serious viewers and players don’t have to sit through filth gameplay.

Originally posted by Spartykins ❤:

I'd like to have more recent data on what would happen with everything unrestricted and no limits though for the hell of it though

invite grand finals for competitive 12v12 no restrictions. The entire 3-map format took 22 minutes. They didn’t even get to the third map.
https://youtu.be/14mM5jfU6xo?si=v6ofbZn_FE7P5dtc

Some things to note are that Random crits were disabled and stopwatch rules applied (first team sets a time, second team has to beat it). However, the defending team never got to set their own time, so defending first put you at an inherent disadvantage.
If you’re interested, the team that started on defense did not win a single round. The team that set the initial time would literally bunker after winning and stall the round until stopwatch awarded them the win.

Some more funny notes:
- triple demo was run fulltime. In some cases an upward of 5 demos were ran at once.
- the attacking team beat upward in 4 minutes; essentially 1 minute per point.
- triple medic was run almost as much as triple demo.
- spy, scout, sniper, and soldier were rarely used compared to other classes. Save for spy, (and maybe scout because of capture points), none of them contributed and none of them scored high.
- vaccinator and short circuit weren’t banned
- they played competitive a/d gorge