Countering arguments in the forums against #FixTF2

[76561199471199986]

Hello :3

The forums have a lot of people who try to discredit #FixTF2 and make up information that is not true. While a lot of people doompost here on people who want this game fixed, I thought to read arguments. These arguments are sometimes not true, ineffective, or just wrong.

"#FixTF2 and #SaveTF2 is a grift made to give profit to TF2 Youtubers" - No. It is a movement that is not made to give youtubers attention. this is made to get attention to the bot problem in tf2, and for valve to see it and give support to the game. It is a thing made to help the game, not youtubers. youtubers just report on the game. this is like saying a tv reporter is a grifter for reporting the news of a murder. also the profit they are making is pennies, they make more from other videos.

"#FixTF2 will not work and is fruitless. Give up and do not participate" - It might work, it might not. the important thing here is trying. if you do not try and just live in gloom and misery, you are not going anywhere. not signing the petition or at least trying to help means you are enabling bot hosters to win. bot hosters want you to give up and stop playing the game. the petition is just like voting, you may say that you make no difference and it doesnt matter if you sign, but maybe thats a majority of people, and we need that majority to sign. The more people who sign, the better this might work. Just like weezy said, a 1% chance is better than a 0%, unboxing a unusual is a 1%, so it happens. we just need to keep trying

"Community servers are the solution" - no they are not. community servers are an escape not a solution. a lot of people say that this is how tf2 originally played, but its not how it is played now. stuff changes, people change, and so does tf2. just because community servers were the main way of playing the game doesnt mean we can all go back to playing community servers because of the bots. ever since valve made casual mode, people have liked the experience it and it has been the main way of playing tf2. community servers are not a solution because even the ones advertised as casual dont come close to being casual. valve owns these servers and owns the game, it is their responsibility to fix it. if i have a mcdonalds open and all of the sudden it gets infested with rats, i cannot say to the people to make their own food, we need mcdonalds to clean their ♥♥♥♥.

"#FixTF2 People are mean and angry" - Not true. the angriest part of this movement are the doomers who are trying to take out this movement. they dislike positivity and a chance to change the game for the better, instead living in constant doom. most of them are rude and constantly attack other people, and when fixtf2 people try to defend themselves or criticize their bad plans (like this thread) they will come in and claim harassment and insults.

"Petitions do not work" - The world of warcraft petition did, and blizzard gave into the players desires. multiple petitions can succeed.

"Anticheat is hard, stop trying to make valve to make one" - this is a crazy point thats respectfully made by a boot licker. yes anticheats are difficult, but its valves job to make one for this game. they are required to make one for the game in order to function properly and continue selling their goodies. its going to take time, and it will be hard, but its their job. the whole movement is for them to do their jobs

"a boycott wouldn't shut the game down" - another valve game, artifact did not do well and because of that, valve decided to cut support from it. i am not saying to buy cases and keys, but fully cutting support from the game may lead to the game getting no support, which would be bad. as weezy said, tf2 makes money, but not a lot that would make valve notice, and people buy stuff from the other marketplace that valve does not get money

[Eighteen-Counts Trevor]

I ain't readin all that + you're wrong

[76561199584261538]

"Los Angeles, California, United States" HELL NAW

[Mina]

Answers can only reach so far, and arguments remain repetitive, consistent in never ending counter arguments

[Gnome Truther]

Does anyone genuinely think this will work? I find it hard to believe that even SaveTF2ers are that deluded.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Gnome Truther:

Does anyone genuinely think this will work? I find it hard to believe that even SaveTF2ers are that deluded.

Most of them are like 13 years old. Let them believe before the crushing feeling of reality sets in.

[hipposeducer28]

I agree with you on just about everything else but there's nothing wrong with offering community servers as a solution. I'm not saying that casual should be removed or that FixTF2 won't work, but it's better to find a platform we can stand on where players are able to reliably find vanilla servers to play the game on, which is vital considering how so many people say the chances of FixTF2 working potentially being as low as 1%, and it's vital for players to know that there are alternatives with different content that they can go to and where they can find these alternatives.
Using your analogy, our McDonalds is infested with rats and we can't eat there, but if we scream at the McDonalds' manager without finding somewhere else to eat in the meantime we will just starve. It's better to listen to the old folks who know of an old and lesser known restaurant down the road with all types of dishes that we can eat in the mean time to show that we can find food elsewhere, while still yelling at McDonalds and letting them know that despite the fact we're getting fed, we'd appreciate if they got rid of the rats so that we could buy and eat food from there again.

I also really just find that the whole "vanilla community servers shouldn't be a more popular option just because things have changed" argument to be just as unreasonable as saying that FixTF2 is going to have 0 chances of working. The only reason vanilla community servers aren't popular anymore is because most new tf2 players don't know they exist or don't play on them because there are so few and those few servers are usually centered around some kind of niche (which is something to be expected of a community server but becomes a problem when there are only like 5 viable vanilla community servers to play on).
Before casual mode, people either used quick play because it was convenient to click a button or they just played on specific servers they found to be fun, and those tightly knit community servers offered an experience that the casual matchmaking system can't match. Once Meet Your Match rolled around, the people who used quickplay beforehand were no longer there to populate random community servers once casual replaced quickplay, and some of the people who played on specific servers started to play on casual because it was a fun experience at the time. Over time new players also jumped into casual because of this, but over time as casual has deteriorated with bots and content bloat with maps, and not everyone realized that there were still alternatives to casual available, and many people still don't.
Speaking of bloated content, the maps that are selected for casual within the past few years have had absolutely no quality control, and navigating through the casual map selection is difficult with how much unnecessary bloat there is, especially as a new player, and in regards to balancing changes and other new content aside from new maps and game modes, casual offers nothing. Meanwhile on community servers you could find a variety of different options to choose from and play on whatever server suits your needs.
Solutions to these problems are obviously things that are possible in casual if Valve does return to working on the game, but if getting them to fix the bots is a 1% chance, I feel like getting them to work on the game again or give the game to someone who will work on it is an even lower one.

TL;DR people can go to community servers while still pushing for Valve to do something with casual, and the op's attitude toward community servers is unreasonable

[Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC]

Originally posted by hipposeducer28:

I agree with you on just about everything else but there's nothing wrong with offering community servers as a solution. I'm not saying that casual should be removed or that FixTF2 won't work, but it's better to find a platform we can stand on where players are able to reliably find vanilla servers to play the game on, which is vital considering how so many people say the chances of FixTF2 working potentially being as low as 1%, and it's vital for players to know that there are alternatives with different content that they can go to and where they can find these alternatives.
Using your analogy, our McDonalds is infested with rats and we can't eat there, but if we scream at the McDonalds' manager without finding somewhere else to eat in the meantime we will just starve. It's better to listen to the old folks who know of an old and lesser known restaurant down the road with all types of dishes that we can eat in the mean time to show that we can find food elsewhere, while still yelling at McDonalds and letting them know that despite the fact we're getting fed, we'd appreciate if they got rid of the rats so that we could buy and eat food from there again.

I also really just find that the whole "vanilla community servers shouldn't be a more popular option just because things have changed" argument to be just as unreasonable as saying that FixTF2 is going to have 0 chances of working. The only reason vanilla community servers aren't popular anymore is because most new tf2 players don't know they exist or don't play on them because there are so few and those few servers are usually centered around some kind of niche (which is something to be expected of a community server but becomes a problem when there are only like 5 viable vanilla community servers to play on).
Before casual mode, people either used quick play because it was convenient to click a button or they just played on specific servers they found to be fun, and those tightly knit community servers offered an experience that the casual matchmaking system can't match. Once Meet Your Match rolled around, the people who used quickplay beforehand were no longer there to populate random community servers once casual replaced quickplay, and some of the people who played on specific servers started to play on casual because it was a fun experience at the time. Over time new players also jumped into casual because of this, but over time as casual has deteriorated with bots and content bloat with maps, and not everyone realized that there were still alternatives to casual available, and many people still don't.
Speaking of bloated content, the maps that are selected for casual within the past few years have had absolutely no quality control, and navigating through the casual map selection is difficult with how much unnecessary bloat there is, especially as a new player, and in regards to balancing changes and other new content aside from new maps and game modes, casual offers nothing. Meanwhile on community servers you could find a variety of different options to choose from and play on whatever server suits your needs.
Solutions to these problems are obviously things that are possible in casual if Valve does return to working on the game, but if getting them to fix the bots is a 1% chance, I feel like getting them to work on the game again or give the game to someone who will work on it is an even lower one.

I honestly appreciate the attempt to use paragraphs...but bruh..

[iSmile02]

Originally posted by Jamie #FixTF2:

The forums have a lot of people who try to discredit #FixTF2 and make up information that is not true.

No, they have a lot of trolls and baiters who want attention. They act contrarian because it gets them that attention. Not to say they secretly care about FixTF2 or anything, but what I am saying is that you're not gonna change anybody's mind here.

[spice]

i'm tempted to post the vaas definition of insanity meme on every fixtf2 post but it's low hanging fruit and the same "you're part of a bot hoster psyop against fixtf2" response is getting old

[Michael De Santa]

Originally posted by suddenly yuri:

the vaas definition of insanity meme

This, this is what it is. They try to counter this by calling you a doomer or saying to try again because it will totally succeed if you try 500 million times and their new excuse “it’s like unboxing an unusual” but it’s literally all just this. It’s a community constantly delusioned and insane enough to have some sort of Stockholm Syndrome with valve. Literally every single argument a fixtf2er gives you is just a repetition from a random YouTube video because they cannot get anything unique and rely on copying their heroes, or they post the most braindead take ever or not even post at all because their YouTuber hasn’t countered that “argument”

Literally all of these arguments in this thread have been debunked multiple times by multiple people, yet they just continue repeating their same exact points that were already misproven because they can’t think of anything else

It’s the literal definition of insanity

[LQIM]

Originally posted by Jamie #FixTF2:

"#FixTF2 People are mean and angry" - Not true. the angriest part of this movement are the doomers who are trying to take out this movement. they dislike positivity and a chance to change the game for the better, instead living in constant doom. most of them are rude and constantly attack other people, and when fixtf2 people try to defend themselves or criticize their bad plans (like this thread) they will come in and claim harassment and insults.

Statements like this are exactly what creates "doomers" btw. Just thought you should know

[Bob]

Community is servers are like garlic to a vampire.

[76561199584261538]

Originally posted by hipposeducer28:

I agree with you on just about everything else but there's nothing wrong with offering community servers as a solution. I'm not saying that casual should be removed or that FixTF2 won't work, but it's better to find a platform we can stand on where players are able to reliably find vanilla servers to play the game on, which is vital considering how so many people say the chances of FixTF2 working potentially being as low as 1%, and it's vital for players to know that there are alternatives with different content that they can go to and where they can find these alternatives.
Using your analogy, our McDonalds is infested with rats and we can't eat there, but if we scream at the McDonalds' manager without finding somewhere else to eat in the meantime we will just starve. It's better to listen to the old folks who know of an old and lesser known restaurant down the road with all types of dishes that we can eat in the mean time to show that we can find food elsewhere, while still yelling at McDonalds and letting them know that despite the fact we're getting fed, we'd appreciate if they got rid of the rats so that we could buy and eat food from there again.

I also really just find that the whole "vanilla community servers shouldn't be a more popular option just because things have changed" argument to be just as unreasonable as saying that FixTF2 is going to have 0 chances of working. The only reason vanilla community servers aren't popular anymore is because most new tf2 players don't know they exist or don't play on them because there are so few and those few servers are usually centered around some kind of niche (which is something to be expected of a community server but becomes a problem when there are only like 5 viable vanilla community servers to play on).
Before casual mode, people either used quick play because it was convenient to click a button or they just played on specific servers they found to be fun, and those tightly knit community servers offered an experience that the casual matchmaking system can't match. Once Meet Your Match rolled around, the people who used quickplay beforehand were no longer there to populate random community servers once casual replaced quickplay, and some of the people who played on specific servers started to play on casual because it was a fun experience at the time. Over time new players also jumped into casual because of this, but over time as casual has deteriorated with bots and content bloat with maps, and not everyone realized that there were still alternatives to casual available, and many people still don't.
Speaking of bloated content, the maps that are selected for casual within the past few years have had absolutely no quality control, and navigating through the casual map selection is difficult with how much unnecessary bloat there is, especially as a new player, and in regards to balancing changes and other new content aside from new maps and game modes, casual offers nothing. Meanwhile on community servers you could find a variety of different options to choose from and play on whatever server suits your needs.
Solutions to these problems are obviously things that are possible in casual if Valve does return to working on the game, but if getting them to fix the bots is a 1% chance, I feel like getting them to work on the game again or give the game to someone who will work on it is an even lower one.

Thats a lot of words man.

[76561199584261538]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Originally posted by Gnome Truther:

Does anyone genuinely think this will work? I find it hard to believe that even SaveTF2ers are that deluded.

Most of them are like 13 years old. Let them believe before the crushing feeling of reality sets in.

2 days left until it fails lmao

[calembredaine]

Originally posted by Jamie #FixTF2:

"#FixTF2 will not work and is fruitless. Give up and do not participate" - It might work, it might not. the important thing here is trying.

you're asked to try something else, not to give up on the game.

when i think about this chaotic movement, it might as well disgust developers and bystanders. worst outcome is that not only we gain nothing more, but our image is degraded by depicting ourselves as immature beggars, in a world where old abandoned playerbases typically manage on their own.

make light of this concern all you want, but really i don't find this any less credible than a "it could eventually happen if we beg often and long enough". if the goal is to preserve this game, then i'd rather we use our resources in a way i deem more proper.

"Community servers are the solution" - no they are not. community servers are an escape not a solution. a lot of people say that this is how tf2 originally played, but its not how it is played now. stuff changes, people change, and so does tf2.

if you want casual specifically, it is not.

however for people who want tf2, community servers always were a possibility. while there are valid critics, i believe main reason they withered to an infamous landfill is valve choking it by putting their servers under the spotlight. now that they show little to no progress on the bot onslaught, might as well re-use what can still work instead. sounds more reliable than a company deliberately leaving aside one of their older ip.

besides, many miss how you could socialize in vanilla community servers. again valve strangled this aspect of playing tf2 by imposing its mm. to those who miss it, having community servers flourishing back is a definite gain.

as you said, tf2 changes. however it can go both ways, including back.

"#FixTF2 People are mean and angry" - Not true. the angriest part of this movement are the doomers who are trying to take out this movement.

i see moronic attitudes on both sides. in fact, i like to think this quarrel is two sides of a same coin: a circus using energy which could have been spent on more reliable initiatives.

there has been reports of reddit actively hushing attempts to provide other plans. not disagree with respectfully, hushing. will you tell me it has to be lies?
always be aware that some elements on your side also bring down your own cause by behaving poorly, not just those who react against it.

"#FixTF2 and #SaveTF2 is a grift made to give profit to TF2 Youtubers" - No. It is a movement that is not made to give youtubers attention. this is made to get attention to the bot problem in tf2, and for valve to see it and give support to the game.

it could be either. or would you tell me that in politics, people's intents are always exactly as they claim?

------------------------

not interested in the rest.
while i find your points very one-sided, at least i don't see you constantly lashing out on others. that's commendable. don't ever lose this habit if you want your cause to be seen in a better light, or at least not a worse one.